Are you all just technical? What is technical?

[fire_diver]

My story on BC's is much like many others. I tried and later bought a conventional jacket BC. It work "fine" for my basic diving. After learning of the BP/W style, I decided to try it. I fell in love with it during my first trial run in the pool. I was no longer diving at a 45 degree angle, I was prone. It never squeezed me when I inflated it. It didn't have rings and pockets I didn't need, and it didn't require several pounds of lead just to sink the BC. Many convential BC have so much padding built into them that they are very inherenlty bouyant.

Basically the BP/W open up a new level of love for scuba diving, and allowed a lot more refinements that would have been very difficult otherwise.

Are they perfect? no, but you have much more flexibility in making it what you need than any standard BC where everything is sewn together and not able to change.

 

[jonnythan]

The faceplant "myth" is something that is continued by people who don't like BP/W's. It has no basis in fact.

Well it does to some degree. With my wing inflated and near-empty dual 80s on my back, I go face-down in the water if I stop moving from vertical. It's not a big deal, but it does happen. And if you're in a back inflate BC with a lot of weight on a belt, you could feel the same tendency. A completely full jacket BC really does keep you pretty much vertical in the water.

 

[DevonDiver]

Why exactly are jacket BCDs "better" for beginners? I never quite worked that out..

 

[Crush]

Here is a thought experiment - assume that your body is a lift bladder/wing:

1. Hold two 10 lb weights at the side of your body (one in each hand). You can move your hands and weights forward and back a bit without needing to compensate too much. That is how your properly weighted BP&W works as well as rear-inflate BCs;
2. Hold those same weights straight out from your body at arms lengths. Do you feel like pitching forward? That is how an improperly weighted BP&W or rear-inflate BC "face-plants" you;

The problem in situation 2 gets worse the more weight you use. In warm tropical water (with minimal weight) it doesn't really matter where you position the weights. In cold water with 30 lbs of lead, however, you will notice a difference.

 

[jonnythan]

Why exactly are jacket BCDs "better" for beginners? I never quite worked that out..

They're better for a class and for rental gear because they're easier to adjust and get into.

 

[fisheater]

Why exactly are jacket BCDs "better" for beginners? I never quite worked that out..

More profit for the LDS. Duh!

As it has been often said, "the best way to save money on dive gear is to buy your second set of gear first."

I started off with my beloved Zeagle. Worked great. I was happy.

I tried a BP/W and it worked better. Lost 10 pounds of lead. Gained better trim. Plus, I was more efficient underwater and, to my surprise, surface swims became MUCH easier.

My beloved, trusty Zeagle BC just sits in a bin in my dive cabinet. :-(


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[vcblklion]

I started with a Lady Hawk back inflate and was quite attached. Tried a B/P W and my beloved Lady Hawk was listed on the classified the next day. I loved it.

"Beginner" equipment implies that you perhaps someday will need to purchase a more "advanced" set. This extra expense is not necessary but the profits will make your dive shop quite happy. I found it much easier to fine tune motion in the "technical" equipment, and enjoy diving it on a 20-60 foot reef dives - just as much as I enjoy diving it in caves.

I don't see reason to start with the beginner regulators - my logic for purchasing the "technical" equipment before heading down that path was: if it functions well for those diving 24 hours into caves, then I'll gladly take their recommendations and be extra safe and comfortable on my reef dives .

You never know - maybe someday you will become intrigued by technical diving, if so, it's nice to not have to purchase a whole new system & readjust to new equipment.

I'm going to jump on the band wagon here. I'm a relatively new diver also. I was going through this back and forth when deciding to buy a BC myself when I first got certified and I heard a lot of advice from different "knowledgeable" divers. I used the Scubapro PRO QD when I first started and was determined to buy it because it gave me a "false" sense of security. I was very afraid of diving a BP/W and just to be fair I tried a back inflate on the advice of my instructor. He told me the back inflate would give me a sense of what it was like to dive a BP/W. I hated the back inflate after trying it in the pool. I felt awkward and exposed.

Just as I was about to buy the Pro QD, a freind of mine called me while I was at the check out counter and asked what I was doing. The coinky dink amazed me. He was one of the divers trying to get me to consider trying a BP/W setup first. Here I was thinking that diving in the back inflate was the same as a BP/W and I told him what I experienced. He suggested I try a BP/W since they are NOT the same as a back inflate. I conceded to try the BP/W. After trying the BP/W with an experienced diver that was able to show me how to dive in it, I fell in love and found a totally loaded, brand new, never used Halcyon Eclipse (with quick adjust system) online on Ebay for about $400 less than retail. The selling point for me.....? If the jacket-style BC were to get a hole in it, I would have to go out and spend another $800 on a new BC. With the Halcyon, if the wing got a hole in it, I could just replace the bladder for a fraction of the cost of the jacket style. This appeal to my pocket book since I don't have a lot of money to spend on equipment. FWIW, I have never been planted "face down" on the surface with my BP/W either.......

 

[DevonDiver]

They're better for a class and for rental gear because they're easier to adjust and get into.

Are they?

That's assuming;

1) You have the right size XS/S/M/L/XL... which doesn't always happen.
2) That the style/brand/model of BCD fits your body type.
3) You ignore the change in fit as the BCD is inflated/deflated during the dive.
4) You are content with a wallowy, shifting fit... that is counter-productive to the development of 'feeling natural' in the water.

I remember spending my first 100 or so dives slowly getting 'over' that wallowy, over-compensating, 'trying to balance in the water' sensation. I thought everyone went through that... it was a 'skill thing'... and 'experience thing'? Right? I moved to a BP&W and those issues ceased. Full stop. Whenever I've used a jacket BCD since (as rarely as I can manage), I've noticed that tendency - in the equipment, not myself.

Then I decided to teach a few OW courses to students in BP&W. You know what? They didn't suffer the 'wallows'... instead they instinctively and intuitively developed far more stable horizontal trim. Every time...

As for fitting... I trained one of my local shop staff how to assist divers fitting a BP&W with hog harness. Was a 5 minute job... done as part of the rental/course process. Added perks were that the customers/students got a more detailed understanding of the kit and a perfectly fitted BCD each time.

Getting into the kit? I've seen more newbie tangle themselves up in hoses, straps, backplate covers, pockets etc in a jacket BCD.... they don't seem to have that problem when confronted by two simple shoulder straps and a waist belt. Same is true on OW classes, doing equipment remove/replace in/under the water...

How exactly were you arguing that simplicity equals complexity?

 

[jonnythan]

Are they?

Yes. Properly adjusting a dozen hog harnesses for a class would take a long, long time.

Understand that I dive a bp/w and advocate a bp/w for almost everyone.

 

[Paladin]

I was diving double steel 72s on a plastic backplate with 6 lbs of lead attached to it. I had nothing on my belt, yet the tendency was still to tilt forward. Was I doing something wrong? Maybe. Even probably. However, for various reasons (not just the faceplant thing), I found that the BP/W setup was not right for me. Personal choice. I should have found a way to try one out before buying the wing. I lost almost a hundred dollars when I sold it.

Faceplant a myth? Hmm. Most realistic myth I've ever encountered, then.

My Aeris EX100 fits me like a glove with no shifting or movement at all. Trim pockets help with swimming attitude. I happen to like the pockets, clips and doodads it has on it. That's part of the reason I bought it. But that, also, was my choice. I am a recreational diver. I just like to get wet and blow bubbles. And feed the fish. Most of my dives are shallower than 60 feet. My air lasts longer and my NDL is longer. Occasionally, I will go to 90 or 100 if there is a good reason but not just to be doing it. The NDL is too short.

There are millions of divers around the world and each one has a slightly (or markedly) different style of diving and the choice of gear will naturally reflect that style.

A new diver can take his or her time to select the gear that fits his or her (current) style or they can rush to buy their stuff at the advice of others whose diving style (or profit margins) may be very different, then end up spending more money than originally intended. This has happened to me, as it has to many others.

I have often heard someone advise a new diver to buy gear that can be used for more ambitious things like tech or cave diving, just in case the newb decides to go that way some time in the future. That's kind of like building a hangar for your Chevy just in case you decide to learn to fly and buy a Cessna one day. IMO, one should get what he or she needs, and will use and enjoy, now and let the future take care of itself. He or she may never go beyond the oh-look-at-the-pretty-fishies! style of diving and won't needed any sort of specialized gear. Of course, if the new diver is planning on getting into tech, wreck or cave diving, it's an entirely different story altogether.

The bottom line is, try everything you possibly can before opening up that wallet. Be sure that what you're spending your hard earned cash on is the right gear for you.