JamesK
Contributor
As for a BPW bible, check out "Doing It Right: The Fundamentals of Better Diving" by Jarrod Jablonski. It should help.
Are you all just technical? What is technical?
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Paladin
Contributor
That isn't entirely true. A horse collar will most definitely float an unconscious diver face up because that is what it was designed to do. The horse collar was the first type of BC to hit the market. Of course, horse collars aren't spoken of very often these days, but they are still being made. I own one and I happen to like it for certain applications.
This isn't a spiel for horse collar BCs, just a bit of trivia.
FWIW: I was specifying "conscious" not because I had any hope that any BCD would hold a floater face-up. Basically the opposite actually. If none of the common choices will do that, then your influence on the outcome is always more significant than the influence of your gear so choose the gear you are most likely to stay in control of.
Referencing post #1.....
Are we all technical? Heck no many are not technical at all, some like to make believe and a few are really pushing the limits. I suppose I was technical when I did ice diving but that's <1% of my dives. Nitrox in the tropics, hardly techical even if we're talking special training and mixed gasses. What about solo, toting a pony tank and being attentive to lots of special stuff. How about using a double hose regulators, that takes a few more unique skills. Many divers do stuff that's beyond the basics but may not be at what is commonly considered technical. I say "commonly considered technical" since the term is undefined. Wreck (penetration) Cave and Deep (real deep) are commonly seen as technical diving activities. Each has a specialized skill set and equipment needs. In any case the vast majority of dives made by the vast majority of divers are not at all technical. Here on ScubaBoard those with technical backgrounds will often be in the forefront of responses making them seem dominant but here are plenty of us mere mortal divers too.
A BP&W is a totally acceptable BC for anyone. Other than being modular it's the same as any other format. The inflator is essentially the same, dump valve, shoulder straps, waist strap, some D rings and so forth. it's going to be more spartan too. You usually need guidance or enough focus to collect the parts though there are some pre-configured rigs that you can just buy and dive. The one limitation of a BP&W is that it wonl;y hike you way up out of the water like some jackets can. Some novices are concerned by this but most acclimate just fine. Rigged inproperly AND overinflated they will plant your face in the water. Correct weight placement and reasonable inflation manages this. If you like to surface swim face down, especially with a snorkel you will be riding lower in the water since you are hanging from the air cell. This can be more difficult. Other than these minor considerations it's a BC and you go diving with it.
You do need to be wary of "selling the rack" Whatever the store has in house is what you should have. This alone can reduce a discussion to gibberish.
I dove a jacket (Sherwood Avid) for 100's of dives and have since switched to a BP&W. I don't find that I dove one Iota better. I do like the flexibility of configuring some stuff to my liking. I love the fact that it easily accommodates me in swim trunks of my drysuit with a heavy undergarment. The key to any rig is a good fit. On the other hand my wife did not get along with her jacket and her BP&W (DSS singles rig) has been a tremendous contributor to her diving.
I'm not aware of any regulators not suitable for the rank and file diver. Some are preferred by technical divers for ease of service and other minor considerations. Availability of local and resort (if applicable) service are bigger considerations IMO.
Since I certified in 2005 the BP&W has become much more mainstream. If your shop is up tight about it go elsewhere. There is no reason for you to not begin with one if you like the concept.
Pete
Are we all technical? Heck no many are not technical at all, some like to make believe and a few are really pushing the limits. I suppose I was technical when I did ice diving but that's <1% of my dives. Nitrox in the tropics, hardly techical even if we're talking special training and mixed gasses. What about solo, toting a pony tank and being attentive to lots of special stuff. How about using a double hose regulators, that takes a few more unique skills. Many divers do stuff that's beyond the basics but may not be at what is commonly considered technical. I say "commonly considered technical" since the term is undefined. Wreck (penetration) Cave and Deep (real deep) are commonly seen as technical diving activities. Each has a specialized skill set and equipment needs. In any case the vast majority of dives made by the vast majority of divers are not at all technical. Here on ScubaBoard those with technical backgrounds will often be in the forefront of responses making them seem dominant but here are plenty of us mere mortal divers too.
A BP&W is a totally acceptable BC for anyone. Other than being modular it's the same as any other format. The inflator is essentially the same, dump valve, shoulder straps, waist strap, some D rings and so forth. it's going to be more spartan too. You usually need guidance or enough focus to collect the parts though there are some pre-configured rigs that you can just buy and dive. The one limitation of a BP&W is that it wonl;y hike you way up out of the water like some jackets can. Some novices are concerned by this but most acclimate just fine. Rigged inproperly AND overinflated they will plant your face in the water. Correct weight placement and reasonable inflation manages this. If you like to surface swim face down, especially with a snorkel you will be riding lower in the water since you are hanging from the air cell. This can be more difficult. Other than these minor considerations it's a BC and you go diving with it.
You do need to be wary of "selling the rack" Whatever the store has in house is what you should have. This alone can reduce a discussion to gibberish.
I dove a jacket (Sherwood Avid) for 100's of dives and have since switched to a BP&W. I don't find that I dove one Iota better. I do like the flexibility of configuring some stuff to my liking. I love the fact that it easily accommodates me in swim trunks of my drysuit with a heavy undergarment. The key to any rig is a good fit. On the other hand my wife did not get along with her jacket and her BP&W (DSS singles rig) has been a tremendous contributor to her diving.
I'm not aware of any regulators not suitable for the rank and file diver. Some are preferred by technical divers for ease of service and other minor considerations. Availability of local and resort (if applicable) service are bigger considerations IMO.
Since I certified in 2005 the BP&W has become much more mainstream. If your shop is up tight about it go elsewhere. There is no reason for you to not begin with one if you like the concept.
Pete
Crush
Contributor
CamG
Contributor
Greatings Them NO we are not all Technical but some of us are.
HOG regs are awesome hard to beat for the cash investment it takes to get them.
You should try all types of BC's before you buy any of them.
See for yourself what works best for you and the dives you wish to do.
I have used many different rigs BC's, regs, integrated weights / weight belts, DS, wetsuits I like to think if it is possible I could dive anything!
I love to research, try new things, experiment with old / new gear and love all things scuba!
So my advice to you would be to pull up a chair and start learning, reading, research,asking questions here is always good.
Congrats and welcome to Scuba Board you have asked a good question.
I would like to encourage you to seek out a local dive club of active divers who can help mentor you in the local dive scene.
You might be able to find the clubs here on the board.
Good luck and welcome to diving.
CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!
HOG regs are awesome hard to beat for the cash investment it takes to get them.
You should try all types of BC's before you buy any of them.
See for yourself what works best for you and the dives you wish to do.
I have used many different rigs BC's, regs, integrated weights / weight belts, DS, wetsuits I like to think if it is possible I could dive anything!
I love to research, try new things, experiment with old / new gear and love all things scuba!
So my advice to you would be to pull up a chair and start learning, reading, research,asking questions here is always good.
Congrats and welcome to Scuba Board you have asked a good question.
I would like to encourage you to seek out a local dive club of active divers who can help mentor you in the local dive scene.
You might be able to find the clubs here on the board.
Good luck and welcome to diving.
CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!
Spent a bit of time digging through DIR discussions online. I am not sure what to say, except to clarify that when I said "BP/W Bible" I just meant an agreed standard reference.
So how is this asked delicately... How firmly associated with that is the BP/W at this point? I don't mean that in a bad way but at some point if you wore a baseball cap people might assume you cared about baseball, right? But now it's a standard article of clothing and wearing one doesn't mean you know how many baseballs can be made from a single horse hide. That's a good thing for people like me who just want to keep the sun out of our eyes, not get into arguments about a game that we have never played.
So how is this asked delicately... How firmly associated with that is the BP/W at this point? I don't mean that in a bad way but at some point if you wore a baseball cap people might assume you cared about baseball, right? But now it's a standard article of clothing and wearing one doesn't mean you know how many baseballs can be made from a single horse hide. That's a good thing for people like me who just want to keep the sun out of our eyes, not get into arguments about a game that we have never played.
Fish-R-Man
Contributor
I have been travel diving with my BP/W exclusively now for about five years or so. I have never had a real negative experience for having "DIR" gear. (I'm not DIR trained, just like the kit) I have had people ask me about the set up and why I use it, but it always been in a fairly positive light. I did have a deck hand on a crowded boat out of Kona make a sideways comment about having a long primary hose, but he looked like the type that makes those kind of comments fairly regularly.
IMHO Camg has some of the best advice. Try as many different types of gear as you can before you plunk down the cash. Until you get some time in the water, you won't really know what works best for you. If you find a dive club or group you can dive with, there always seem to be guys that will have a extra gear that they may loan to you to try out.....
IMHO Camg has some of the best advice. Try as many different types of gear as you can before you plunk down the cash. Until you get some time in the water, you won't really know what works best for you. If you find a dive club or group you can dive with, there always seem to be guys that will have a extra gear that they may loan to you to try out.....
Griffo
Contributor
For me, the switch to BP/W was about comfort. I'd learnt on the traditional jacket BC in warm waters, and to be honest never really noticed a problem. But then I moved to colder climates, and for both myself and the missus, the jackets just made diving feel claustrophobic. Once we added all that extra neoprone, the frontal squeeze that the jackets gave just felt .. uncomfortable. Even gearing up was a claustrophobic experience.
Thanks to scubaboard, I was introduced to the BP/W setup, and we both switched. Now while I do hope to go technical diving, the missus never plans to. And she loves it even more than me - the freedom and the way it helps in getting your trim right is hard to explain in words. I was even happier recently that diving a wing in warm water was even more of a joy, it really was like flying underwater.
So for us, the BP/W switch was a godsend, and had as much to do with comfort and becoming better divers, than it did as a requirement to go technical.
I've never experienced this "push you forward" on the surface, and the BP/W also lead to a drop in weight, which is a godsend when you are wearing a lot of it in cold water.
I will say that the BP/W did not for me magically result in perfect trim, and I actually struggled with balance initially, but 20 minutes with someone who knew what they were doing sorted that out.
Thanks to scubaboard, I was introduced to the BP/W setup, and we both switched. Now while I do hope to go technical diving, the missus never plans to. And she loves it even more than me - the freedom and the way it helps in getting your trim right is hard to explain in words. I was even happier recently that diving a wing in warm water was even more of a joy, it really was like flying underwater.
So for us, the BP/W switch was a godsend, and had as much to do with comfort and becoming better divers, than it did as a requirement to go technical.
I've never experienced this "push you forward" on the surface, and the BP/W also lead to a drop in weight, which is a godsend when you are wearing a lot of it in cold water.
I will say that the BP/W did not for me magically result in perfect trim, and I actually struggled with balance initially, but 20 minutes with someone who knew what they were doing sorted that out.
DevonDiver
N/A
Adjusting "a dozen hog harnesses" is hardly a criteria that would make a BP/W unsuitable for an individual... unless they were some sort of mad kleptomaniac diver who had a severe 'bulimic and binge' eating disorder and consequent weight fluctuations...
I've never taught a course to 12 divers. I never will. However, based on my experience teaching OW classes in BP&W, it'd work out at approx 5 minutes per diver. That said, if there were that many students on a course, I'd just spend an hour running a BP/W fitting workshop for those divers.
If you had 12 divers on a course, and weren't willing to spend an hour helping them understand the ins-and-outs of whatever kit they were using, then you'd probably be running some sort of horrible low-standard sausage factory for divers, eh?
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