Are you a DIR-like Diver?

[BigJetDriver]

Karl_in_Calif once bubbled...
I believe that JJ----(EDITORS NOTE:...ALONG WITH MEMBERS OF MOST TECHNICAL TRAINING AGENCIES)----is completely correct about divers needing to be totally self reliant. Unfortunately many of the major training agencies purposely train students to a level of buddy dependence. So this probably will not change much in the future.

I believe JJ is totally right that a team of divers involved in a high risk operation should all be equally configured.

(EDITORS NOTE: HERE JJ MIRRORS OTHER AUTHORITIES IN THE FIELD WHO BELIEVE THAT WHEN TEAMS ARE CONFIGURED AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO BE ALIKE, IT SMOOTHS THE LOGISTICS OF THE EFFORT.)

I believe that JJ is totally right about physical fitness activities during the week, to stay in prime shape for diving.

I believe JJ is totally right about using nitrox for all dives rather than air.

(EDITORS NOTE:...OR BREATHING GASES OTHER THAN AIR, SUCH AS HELI-OX, AS USED, FOR INSTANCE IN CCR's)

I believe that JJ is totally right that your SPG should be unencumbered by a console of any kind.

I believe that JJ is totally right about smaller fins, such as ScubaPro jetfins or Turtle fins, and low displacement masks.

(EDITORS NOTE: LOW DISPLACEMENT MASKS ARE NOT POSSIBLE WHEN USING COMM GEAR)

Much of these DIR concepts have been around longer than JJ, however he has articulated them well in his book.

(EDITORS NOTE:---AS WE KNOW, HOWEVER, THE BOOK SHOULD BE TITLED: "A COLLECTION OF THE PRACTICES AND PROCEDURES OF THE ELDERS OF WKPP DIVING, AS RE-INTERPRETED BY JARROD JABLONSKI, THE YOUNGER"---PLEASE SEE EARLIER POST BY WILLIAM HOGARTH MAIN)

JJ's concept of full uniformity for non-high risk operations does not make sense to me, however. I agree that there are advantages to being uniformly configured all the time. But there are also advantages to flexibility as well. So this is a pros vs cons issue.

By analogy, since you do not always configure yourself the same way as for ice diving for other diving as well, then the concept of uniform configuration is not universally applicable and hence not ideal. I simply prefer more flexibility and customization than JJ prefers.

And thats why I prefer "partially DIR."

Good post, Karl!

 

[SeaJay]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...

SeaJay, you make excellent points and civil too. Thankyou for not sending me insulting private messages. You could give lessons to several people on this board on how to get your point across.

I'm flattered.

Why would I send you insulting PM's? You seem like a nice guy to me. Even if you weren't, it wouldn't warrant misbehavior like that.

But heck, the bottom line is that you're a diver, which means that we've got like interests... Which means we've got things in common. I don't see why the specifics have to come between people with things in common.

I'm sorry you're getting flamed. At least it's being done privately. It always felt worse to me when it was in public.

But hey, if you're getting flamed, then you're in good company. JJ gets flamed, GI3 gets flamed, UP gets flamed, O-ring gets flamed... Heck, I once heard someone refer to The Deco Stop (sort of a tech child of this board) as "The Weenie Stop." The bottom line is, "If you ain't gettin' flamed, then you're probably not doing something right." Albert Einstein got flamed... Alexander Graham Bell got flamed... Thomas Edison got flamed... You're in good company, no matter whether you have a micro or a macro view on flaming.

Now, if the person who's doing the flaming is reading this... How 'bout taking a 'chill, hunh? I mean, I'm no moderator, so I don't have a right... But there's nothing wrong with being nice, you know.

...And certainly, if you, the flamer, is representing DIR, remember UP's words: "You may not be the best example of DIR." Please remember the words that you were no doubt told in your DIR-F class about "being an ambassador..." After all, you are the minority...

 

[JeffG]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...


(EDITORS NOTE:---AS WE KNOW, HOWEVER, THE BOOK SHOULD BE TITLED: "A COLLECTION OF THE PRACTICES AND PROCEDURES OF THE ELDERS OF WKPP DIVING, AS RE-INTERPRETED BY JARROD JABLONSKI, THE YOUNGER"---PLEASE SEE EARLIER POST BY WILLIAM HOGARTH MAIN)

Nope. Not Re-interpreted, expanded.

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...
[B(EDITORS NOTE:---AS WE KNOW, HOWEVER, THE BOOK SHOULD BE TITLED: "A COLLECTION OF THE PRACTICES AND PROCEDURES OF ... WKPP DIVING, AS RE-INTERPRETED BY JARROD JABLONSKI ...[/B]

That WOULD have been a better title, absolutely.

 

[paulwlee]

With respect to yet another DIR-bashing at the beginning of this thread, I find it very interesting, because:

Every DIR diver(or diver adhering to 'most' of its tenets) I met in person, or interacted with in a local BB, were very nice people, and had done much experimentation before settling on DIR.
After taking DIR-F a couple weeks ago, I am also convinced that they have a system that really works. (And no, they haven't invented each and every aspect of it. They just put things together to work well. Nothing wrong with that.)

I will probably not be DIR in the near future as I enjoy diving solo and really like my air integrated wrist computer, but as I progress into tek diving, I will probably become a 'mostly' DIR diver myself. (Exceptions being that I will probably still do NDL solo dives.)

Now unlike Seajay I don't think it's a one-size fits all, the best for everyone and everything, and there are other safe ways to do things (and many more less safe ways) but it's a system that's well thought out and works well in practice, and I like it, so there you go.
If you don't like what they do, then let them be and do what you want.
If you like what they do, do it with them.

That's my 2 cents worth.

 

[SeaJay]

paulwlee once bubbled...

Every DIR diver(or diver adhering to 'most' of its tenets) I met in person, or interacted with in a local BB, were very nice people, and had done much experimentation before settling on DIR.

Make that another. I, too, have done much experimentation... As did JJ, GI3, AndrewG, and the other "main DIR guys."

In fact, I can assure you that they still experiment and refine, although the changes may seem slight... Seen more as "refinements" than "changes."

After taking DIR-F a couple weeks ago, I am also convinced that they have a system that really works. (And no, they haven't invented each and every aspect of it. They just put things together to work well. Nothing wrong with that.)

Nicely put!

Now unlike Seajay I don't think it's a one-size fits all, the best for everyone and everything, and there are other safe ways to do things (and many more less safe ways) but it's a system that's well thought out and works well in practice, and I like it, so there you go.

Fair enough.

Frankly, I'm not of the "one size fits all" ilk. I may have given that impression, but it's not the case at all. I'm actually of the, "this is what I believe to be the best system" ilk, and the, "if you choose to dive otherwise, then more power to you" ilk.

My father and my grandfather and his father before him fought in wars to ensure that people have the right to choice. I'm not about to dishonor them with other beliefs... Which, incidentally, I do not have.

It's all about choice, man. I choose a different system than most. What you experienced in DIR-F is what I've chosen, not because I was forced to or "brainwashed" to, but through trial and error and an open mind. If you check my DIR-F report, you'll see that even right after the class, I still exercised my right to choose and try a solo dive in a jacket BC. However, after at least getting a glance at what could be versus what was, I was able to make an educated decision based on personal experience, others' experiences, and of course, some classroom time.

I invite everyone to do the same. I might point out what I've seen up to this point, but I am by no means an expert - and don't feel that anyone should tell anyone else how to dive.

Please, by all means... Exercise choice. And please respect mine as well.

...And expect that those choices might sometimes seem offensive to others. Believe me, I get more *stuff* about being DIR than y'all get about *not* being DIR.

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

Saturation once bubbled...
Please select what you think is your diving style.

This poll has not worked too well, Doc.

You may want to try it again.

Maybe title it:

POLL OF GEAR CONFIGURATIONS: PLEASE PARTICIPATE

1) GUE/DIR

2) OTHER CAVE DIR

3) PARTIALLY DIR

4) UNCONCERNED WITH DIR TO ANY DEGREE

Definition: DIR -- a cave diving related configuration that has become know among even non-cave divers in modern times.

 

[BigJetDriver]

SeaJay once bubbled...
...But hey, if you're getting flamed, then you're in good company...GI3 gets flamed...

But there's nothing wrong with being nice, you know.

...And certainly, if you, the flamer, are representing DIR, remember UP's words: "You may not be the best example of DIR." Please remember the words that you were no doubt told in your DIR-F class about "being an ambassador..." After all, you are the minority...

I like SeaJay's caution to the more aggressive members of the DIR community that it would be helpful to remember to act as "ambassadors". He is quite right, you know. There is nothing wrong with being nice.

This would have to be the lesson that George Irvine III skipped in school somewhere. While he can be quite pleasant in person, and can manage to make reasonable and informative presentations in public, as soon as he gets near an Internet keyboard, the psychopath in him comes to the fore.

His public posts in the case of divers who have died have been insulting, vitriolic, harmful in the extreme, and hurtful to the friends and loved ones of the deceased.

Even George's friends admit that they wish they could keep him away from a keyboard. His diving exploits entitle him to opine about diving and its practice. Nothing, however,.....ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...entitles him, or anyone for that matter, to spew the kind of sociopathic hate speech that he vomits forth. While we expect such venom and drivel from racists and terrorists, it is ultimately much more shocking when foaming and frothing from the mouth of someone in George's position.

We are trying to make it plain that hate speech is not an acceptable form of expression in this land of ours. I, for one, wish to Heaven that someone could make that plain to GI3. :box:

 

[paulwlee]

SeaJay once bubbled...

Frankly, I'm not of the "one size fits all" ilk. I may have given that impression, but it's not the case at all. I'm actually of the, "this is what I believe to be the best system" ilk,

It's kind of the same thing, because you're saying you believe it's the best system for everyone. But I was just kidding anyway.

My father and my grandfather and his father before him fought in wars to ensure that people have the right to choice.

Just out of curiosity, which ones? WW1,2,Vietnam?

It's all about choice, man. I choose a different system than most. What you experienced in DIR-F is what I've chosen, not because I was forced to or "brainwashed" to, but through trial and error and an open mind.

Yep, same for me.

 

[SeaJay]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...

...There is nothing wrong with being nice.

This would have to be the lesson that George Irvine III skipped in school somewhere.

Heh.

Heh heh.

Heheheheeee...

"No comment."

You should see him on the Quest list. Maaaaannn... It's just a good thing that y'all don't see him there.

I respect the man for his accomplishments. I listen. But he sure doesn't make it easy.

paulwlee once bubbled...

But I was just kidding anyway.

Aw, heck... I know. I was just trying to ensure that I don't somehow get alienated - or have others feel alienated - because of a difference in opinion.

Just out of curiosity, which ones? WW1,2,Vietnam?

WWI (infantry), WWII (infantry, translator), Korea (clerk), and Vietnam (pilot). My father did three tours in Vietnam in an O2 reconnaisance aircraft on the Ho Chi Min trail... Then continued to serve his country in the Cold War flying U2 spy aircraft in the early '70's. Later, he was an instructor pilot in Mississippi, and then for a summer or two at Red Flag... He retired after flying a variety of fighters, including the F16, at the age of 56 - due to medical problems from the lifetime of high G's. I am the first "Howard L. Bayne" (I'm the 4th) to not serve his country. I'm also the first to graduate from a military academy. Frankly, after that, and after living the military lifestyle as a child, I can tell you that it simply wasn't for me. I wanted to own my own company. I built my first when I was 23. Now, at 33, I own a wireless internet service provider, and I'm very happy. Best of all, it's somewhat of a "branch" of my father's communications company, so I get to be involved with my family - which was a privilege that I did not have for many years while I lived in Arizona. It hasn't been a bed of roses, but I'm free to choose, and I choose to continue to be with my family (large, Southern family).

...Sorry. Back to your regularly scheduled program.