Are you a DIR-like Diver?

[CincyBengalsFan]

cd_in_SeaTac once bubbled...


I thought this was covered in the previous, but ok there's one.



You say flaws like there are multiple. Do you have some real flaws you'd like to point out?

Okay, I'll say flaw for right now. My bad, hope it didn't cause to much confusion. And the fact that you can not consider that a real flaw, that's just scary.

You don't think that two divers without a regulator is a flaw? By that thinking there should not be any flaws with the short hose configuration either or possibly in Scuba period, at least not "real" flaws like you put it....

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
cd_in_SeaTac

I'm not going to get into the bashing or name calling with you.

Dude you have said repeatedly there are many flaws to diving a long hose, you have been asked repeatedly to elaborate on these flaws. You hold out one argument, that more than one person has conceded might be a concern and might not since you can reach a bungeed octo without using the hands, and offer no more?

I'm not bashing or name calling, I'm asking you to quit posturing and play the Ace. You continue to mis-direct the conversation when someone asks you about the details.

 

[Big-t-2538]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
OK...One valid point that I did make that some people just can't swallow is.........The fact that you have two divers without air or a reg in their mouth for a brief moment hopefully...HOPEFULLY just a brief moment when you donate the primary (FACT!!!!). To me this opens up the door to have two paniced divers instead of one. When you donate your octo...The chance of two paniced divers is significantly less than donated your primary.

I'm sure you can understand my point.

You argue it that way...I see the other side of the issue being that a calm diver is not going to panic without his reg for a few brief moments. I also feel that the idea that I am giving a panicked diver a regulator I know is working right this second is a benefit that outweighs the risk of my octo failing in this situation and me having to share air off of my working primary with a panicked diver.....

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

JJ's book is excellent reading for everyone, whether totally non-DIR, partially DIR, or DIR (I suppose fully DIR is redundant, since you cannot be DIR unless you are fully DIR).

I believe JJ is completely correct about donating the primary 2nd stage. Eventually, I believe the diving industry may adapt this as a standard, since it is such a good idea, and the pros outweigh the cons on this procedure, in my opinion.

I believe that JJ is completely correct about divers needing to be totally self reliant. Unfortunately many of the major training agencies purposely train students to a level of buddy dependence. So this probably will not change much in the future.

I believe that JJ is totally right, that all diving should be buddy diving or team diving. Unfortunately, there will always be solo divers. Fortunately Robert Maier has written a book on solo diving to establish some procedures for Doing It Better.

I believe JJ is totally right that a team of divers involved in a high risk operation should all be equally configured.

I believe that JJ is totally right about physical fitness activities during the week, to stay in prime shape for diving.

I believe JJ is totally right about using nitrox for all dives rather than air.

I believe that JJ is totally right that your SPG should be unencumbered by a console of any kind.

I believe that JJ is totally right about smaller fins, such as ScubaPro jetfins or Turtle fins, and low displacement masks.

Much of these DIR concepts have been around longer than JJ, however he has articulated them well in his book.

JJ's concept of full uniformity for non-high risk operations does not make sense to me, however. I agree that there are advantages to being uniformly configured all the time. But there are also advantages to flexibility as well. So this is a pros vs cons issue.

By analogy, since you do not always configure yourself the same way as for ice diving for other diving as well, then the concept of uniform configuration is not universally applicable and hence not ideal. I simply prefer more flexibility and customization than JJ prefers.

And thats why I prefer "partially DIR."

 

[Big-t-2538]

I see someone had his kool-aid this morning

 

[SeaJay]

CincyBengalsFan once bubbled...
OK, first of all it needs to be made aware that I NEVER SAID or made a valid point about strangulation with that 7 footer. It might have been Karl or some Karl-Like figure.

Hahahahahaaaa!!! Ah, yes... That's right... Forgive me for saying it was you. Now that you remind me, you did NOT say that. I'm sorry.

The other thing is...We may hit 50 pages again...

Lol... Something tells me that you're right.

OK...One valid point that I did make that some people just can't swallow is.........The fact that you have two divers without air or a reg in their mouth for a brief moment hopefully...HOPEFULLY just a brief moment when you donate the primary (FACT!!!!). To me this opens up the door to have two paniced divers instead of one. When you donate your octo...The chance of two paniced divers is significantly less than donated your primary.

This is enough to turn me away from donating the primary.

I'm sure you can understand my point. I'm not asking you have to swallow it...But just say you understand it.

Ah, yes... I do remember you pointing that out. Perhaps it wasn't addressed.

Let's draw an example... Two divers on a buddy team... One of them has an OOG.

Now, between the two of them, there's four (second stage) regs. The situation above which you use as an example considers three of the four regulators inoperative. Two of them don't work because there's no gas for them to give. One regulator works (the one in the second diver's mouth, whether that's the one donated or not) and his other doesn't (whether that's his "backup" or "octo," and whether it's donated or "switched to.")

Agreed? So we have two divers, and one working second stage.

The bottom line is that you're going to have to buddy breathe. Donating the primary takes some of the time without gas off of your buddy, and allows you to share the burden.

Let's draw the two examples out... In the case where the divers donate their primaries, here's how it goes: The first diver's out of gas, and waits 10 or 20 seconds before he's able to get another breath. That's when the second diver finds out that his backup doesn't work. He must also wait, then, 10 or 20 seconds before he can take a breath, and then the two of them settle into a six second pass until they're able to surface.

In the case where the divers donate their octos, here's how it goes: The first diver's out of gas, and waits 10 or 20 seconds before he gets another reg in his mouth, which does not work. Then he needs to wait another 10 or 20 seconds to recieve your primary, which you don't feel comfortable giving anyway (since you feel that somehow makes you OOA) and is on a very short hose. In all, in this case, your OOG buddy could be OOG for 40 seconds or more... And that's assuming that you found your octo on the first "sweep."

Faced with a choice of those two scenarios, Cincy, I personally would choose the first - no matter which diver I was.

 

[Saturation]

cd_in_SeaTac once bubbled...
as a "Like DIR" choice? DIR is like Hogarthian not vice versa.

This thread is looking to poll divers as to what they think their diving style is called, and a discussion is really up to you all, its been discussed elsewhere many times. After a search, no one has requested a poll of this sort to date on SB.

 

[CD_in_Chitown]

Saturation once bubbled...
This thread is looking to poll divers as to what they think their diving style is called,

That's fine and dandy but your responses will be skewed Dr. as you've stated the question to imply "How DIR are you"

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

cd_in_SeaTac once bubbled...


Dude you have said repeatedly there are many flaws to diving a long hose, you have been asked repeatedly to elaborate on these flaws. You hold out one argument, that more than one person has conceded might be a concern and might not since you can reach a bungeed octo without using the hands, and offer no more?

I'm not bashing or name calling, I'm asking you to quit posturing and play the Ace. You continue to mis-direct the conversation when someone asks you about the details.

Look, I don't know what more I can say to you. I S A I D "M Y B A D" A B O U T S A Y I N G F L A W S! I F U R T H E R M O R E S A I D I S H O U L D H A V E S A I D F L A W !!! what part of this is hard to comprehend?

I had a very valid point that I'm not asking you to swallow. Just to acknowlege it. SeaJay has made other valid points to my point. I simply feel that having just one diver without a reg is better than two divers without a reg. G E T O V E R I T & (AND) M O V E O N P L E A S E!

 

[Karl_in_Calif]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
I see someone had his kool-aid this morning

Koolaid has sugar in it, and that is not good for you either. You will wake up one day with adult-onset diabedes. I cannot understand why parents feed this junk food to their kids.

Ice water, or fruit juice (fructose), or lowfat milk (only on non-diving days).