Are the majority of dive shops bad?

[2airishuman]

I really hesitated to post this question. I consider myself relatively new to diving, I have 18 dives under my belt and have been certified for 2 years. In that time I've encountered three different dive shops for certifications/gear and about that many for dives. While the shops I've dived with have been fine, the others have a lot to be desired.

[...]

It just appears to me that these shops may know how to dive, but really don't understand how to run a business. I know that these are small businesses. I know they have families to feed. I don't feel like being the jerky customer who escalates complaints. But I also feel like there's no reason for a customer to be treated this way.

Am I doing something wrong here? I'm just feeling very frustrated.

Dive retail is one of the last remnants of specialty retailing. With a handful of exceptions, no business person chooses to go into dive retail to make money. The businesses are run by divers looking to monetize their hobby. Therefore, they tend to be quirky.

It is my experience that perhaps 20% of the shops out there understand what they are doing, are well capitalized, and are serious about delivering quality instruction, quality service, and a reasonably broad selection of products.

I foresee a future where dive retail, instruction, trips, and air fills are delivered through separate channels.

 

[Neilwood]

"It just appears to me that these shops may know how to dive, but really don't understand how to run a business."
I came to that conclusion about 30 years ago. But it isn't just dive shops--there are a lot of businesses where someone has a passion, but no business skills. A lot of doctors offices the same way.

Find out how long the shop has been around. 20 years? Then they're probably doing something right. I know one shop that has a college course contract, PD and FD training and supply contracts, a good boat partner, they charge a bit more but they are wired into a solid base for a long time. Then there are other shops, often closed in five years or less. Those are the folks who find out the hard way how hard it is to run a niche business. Shops that are ten years old are either learning to compete--or really turning over masses of tourists or something to stay alive.

A shop that chides, accuses, mocks, badmouths the competition...That's one that probably won't be around for ten years. No customer likes to hear that.

Not all businesses that have been around for a long time are doing things right - sometimes they exist just because they are the only option.

Shop 1 is a prime example of that. Gear lying on shelves (unfolded or shoved in), dusty wetsuits/drysuits on hangers, looks like it hasn't been painted or recarpetted for 20 years, hand written receipts (in this day and age?), no online presence (not one that is worth speaking about anyway). The staff always seem disinterested.They have no pool or training to speak off. It is 30 mins away.

Shop 2 - slightly further away but have a serious attitude problem (they continually try to upsell). Shop is cramped but they have a better inventory and some on line presence. They have a reputation for not filling tanks unless checked by them (even if a tank has only had a hydro 1 week prior but by another shop - even if the other shop is a member of the same test body). It is 45 mins away.

Shop 3 - they have a bright, airy shop, all gear is stacked/hung neatly or in a display, the inventory is electronic, they have a website (with shop, trips, courses etc all available through it), they use social media, they have their own pool (which is let out to local schools etc). They always have trips running or local dives scheduled. If I walked in now, I would probably end up spending 10-15 mins chatting to the staff who are always attentive. It is 2hrs away.

All the above shops have existed for 20-30 years but have developed in very different ways.

Guess which shop is used more? This despite the fact that shop 1 is near the centre of a major city and shop is in a small town on the outskirts of a city. I have and still would make the point of travelling an extra 90 minutes to go to shop 3 instead travelling 30 mins to shop 1 or 45 to shop 2.

 

[Clayton122]

I’ll be upfront: I’m a DRIS local customer, done all my training with them from the beginning, shop almost exclusively there. Drive is 50 miles from home, 35 miles from work. I will go down one evening a week during the season (early April to late October) for fills. Due to Chicago area traffic, it might take me as long as 2 hours from work, then a hour home (which is normal). Shop is totally on the opposite side of the Chicago area from me. Good prices, good in stock inventory, and they bank 32% nitrox so my tanks don’t have to be O2 cleaned. I dive with tech gear, and DRIS sells what I need.

I’ve checked out another 4-5 shops within a reasonable distance. They either have little stock (one looked at me cross-eyed when I asked for a mesh duffle bag - they only carry small snorkeling gear bags), have little I would want (I’m a cold water diver and virtually all the local shops - except DRIS and maybe 1-2 others - are warm water shops, plus I dive a tech setup), and most can’t even fill my HP steel tanks. They have 3442 psi service pressure and the shop compressors only go up to 3000 psi. In other words, they’re used to filling AL80s. The store staff are often cranky. Almost always tried to push their upcoming warm water trips on me. They were mostly horrified I don’t do warm water.

Just found a shop 10 min from my office that will fill my steels, but they charge more for HP tanks, and I’d have to drop them off. I can walk into DRIS with 6 tanks, wait perhaps an hour while I’m happily chatting with store staff, and walk out with them. Even with the cost of gas and my time, still cheaper to get fills at DRIS.

I see the instructors from many of the other area shops out at the quarry (where I dive when I’m not on the Great Lakes for whatever reason), and the sight does not inspire confidence. I refer to them as “diver factories.” Huge classes. I’ve had numerous classes suddenly swarm where I’ve been diving at the quarry. Multiple students have kicked me in the face, plus they’ve attempted to either stand or sit on my head. Doesn’t matter what you do to avoid them, there they are! Seriously! Why do they ignore the bubbles coming from right below them? As I’ve told my dive buddies, next time a student tries to kick me in the face or sit/stand on me, I’m grabbing their fin and not letting go. And if I find out what instructor, I have no problem telling them after the dive they need to tell their students to watch out for others’ bubbles.

Yes, that makes me VERY cranky.

I can only imagine what you think of the shop that I teach for. Since we almost always have the largest classes out there.

 

[Saniflush]

One of my supervisors (non diving related business) had a saying for the people who worked in his department..."Get in where you fit in", which just meant that everyone has different talents and interests. Being in the greater Atlanta area I have a number of shops around me in the <1 hour travel time window. I have been to a number of them and almost every one of them have some redeemable qualities. They may not be the quality that I am looking for at the moment but they exist to service someone who has those wants/needs. I am have a skewed view of all other shops than my favorite because they do not best suit my needs. Doesn't mean they are bad, but just bad for me at the time. Hunt around the different shops and "get in where you fit in".

 

[drbill]

I guess I'm lucky to live where I do because I have several local dive shops that are good. When I travel domestically or internationally, I always research the shops I dive with and have only had one negative situation.

 

[Colliam7]

I know that these are small businesses. I know they have families to feed. I don't feel like being the jerky customer who escalates complaints. But I also feel like there's no reason for a customer to be treated this way. Am I doing something wrong here? I'm just feeling very frustrated.

Your feeling of frustration is both understandable, and probably justified. I use the term 'probably' simply because we have one side of the story - yours. But, there is certainly no reason to doubt it. I cannot think of anything you are doing 'wrong', based on your description.

The perceived competence of a dive shop is based on their attentiveness to customer needs. Yes, having a knowledgeable staff, a good selection of merchandise, and reasonable pricing are all part of that attentiveness. But, paying attention to, and serving, you as the customer is what makes a 'good' shop. And, yes, they are 'retail' operations and selling things, be it gear, training or travel - for a PROFIT - is what they are in business to do. There is nothing at all wrong with that. It is a good thing. Unfortunately, some shops seem to forget that the customer is doing them a favor by shopping there, not the other way around. (One of my sons-in-law is a partner in a restaurant. The senior partner has a business philosophy that I can really relate to - 'My job is to relieve you of as much of your money as I can, and have you feel good about it.')

Three thoughts come to me based on your shop descriptions:

1. It is interesting that you elected to not to go with shop D, after what you 'had a great experience and feel I got a very good training with them' for open water. It might have been more productive to speak with the shop management about your less than positive experience in the specialty class - let them know your concerns, and ask them if that is their norm. That way they get to know you better, understand that you are serious about the quality of training, etc. Plus, it helps them understand that large classes might not be everyone's preference.

2. The problem with shop X appears to be that they are one of the shops that take 'personal' offence when a customer chooses to go elsewhere. Instead of trying to better understand WHY the customer went elsewhere, they simply want to piss and moan that the customer did so. Unfortunately, there are shops like that out there. Fortunately, they are a minority. And, you learned a valuable lesson - don't use them again, for anything.

3. With regard to getting your cards from shop J, I suggest that you call them, and find out if they physically have the cards in the shop - they may need to look a little harder. If they do not, find out why - were the cards mailed to the shop by SDI and the shop then mailed them to you? (Or, were they supposed to be mailed directly to you by SDI?) If they were mailed to you by the shop, and for some reason a wrong address was used, they should have been returned to the shop. If they do have them / are able to find them, drive the 180 minutes to that shop and back and pick them up. While you are there, speak with the owner, and let that person know that you are very disappointed with your experience. It is always better to handle things like that bin person, instead of being a disembodied voice on the other end of a phone call.

My own experience has been that, if you invest in the relationship you have a better chance of reaping benefits. Spending money is an investment. But, becoming a person known (positively) to the shop staff is equally important.

To address the title of your thread: There are many good shops, and I do not believe the majority are bad by any means. I 'grew up' in one of good ones. I started diving when I completed my OW there, and I ultimately progressed to Instructor through that shop. The owner and I became friends, travel companions, dive buddies. The shop had a base of customers who were loyal to the shop - many of them would stop by from time to time just to chat, whether they needed to buy anything or not. As a member of the instructional staff, I felt like I had a home away from home. Unfortunately, the shop closed ~5 years ago after the owner died suddenly at a young age. To this day, the Instructors who were part of that shop like to refer to it as Camelot.

 

[CT-Rich]

Both as a customer and as retailer, it all about the interaction. 80% of verbal communication is actually visual. I have one of the highest contract to to install ratios in my company. The number one reason is that bad news gets delivered in person, never by email or phone.

Remove the visual cues from a conversation and things come across very differently. Type the same message and you come across as an absolute prick.

This is why there are so many jerks on the Internet. Reasonable people type a lot of stuff that comes across as snitty or maybe they are Russian troll-bots

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I don't think it is possible to characterize shops worldwide or even nationwide. The sample size of our individual experiences is not statistically significant.

That said, I have found some amazing dive shops in my area and in other parts of the country. Places where you just liked being there. I've been in others where I just left, or if I was desperate for something, just made a quick purchase and got out of there.

I think one of the problems as someone already mentioned, is that owners are divers who want to live the life and lack the business background to operate and maintain/grow a successful business. Someone mentioned about how people open up and sit back looking for customers. From the people whom I've known in different industries who were involved with startups, marketing is key to get customers in the door.

One trend I see is that some dive shops are stuck in the late 90's. They don't seem to be aware that there is this thing called the Internet and that they have to change their business model. Having cheap classes and recouping those costs via equipment sales is a loser. They complain about the loss of business to the Internet, but they don't change how they run their business. That just isn't very smart. I've seen time and time again that after certification, students by their stuff elsewhere. Not everyone of course, but a lot of them.

Honestly, unless a shop has a strong online presence/sales, they absolutely have to charge a reasonable amount for their courses.

There is a lot of drama between shops. They can be very cliquish, and I think this hurts diving. I always admire the shop owners/managers say "hey, we'd love to have you as a customer, but if you go elsewhere, we hope you get good service there too and are happy. We just want you to keep diving" as they get the big picture.

Customer service is key. With regards to the issues the OP has seen, agency doesn't matter. But they should always be responsive for reasonable requests.

 

[Cap335]

The internet has only a small effect on most stores, yes you see people tat buy online but those same people would have probably bought mail order in the past. The way a store gets traffic is mostly personal referrals if you do a good class and treat your customers like they are your friends (and many will be) they will bring you friends and family. Nobody wants to go into a store to order something basic so you have to have a good inventory. When necessary you may need to spend most of the night working on gear wfor someone who tries their gear the day before a trip. Bottom line if you want to run a shop be willing to work. I have over 30 years in the business one way or another.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The internet has only a small effect on most stores, yes you see people tat buy online but those same people would have probably bought mail order in the past. The way a store gets traffic is mostly personal referrals if you do a good class and treat your customers like they are your friends (and many will be) they will bring you friends and family. Nobody wants to go into a store to order something basic so you have to have a good inventory. When necessary you may need to spend most of the night working on gear wfor someone who tries their gear the day before a trip. Bottom line if you want to run a shop be willing to work. I have over 30 years in the business one way or another.

You do realize that younger generations buy mostly online, right?