Info Are Pony Bottles Dangerous?

[johndiver999]

Question: Do you think you would have gotten into this situation if you didn't have a pony? I don't mean to imply that the pony was the issue in your case, but clearly there has been a lot of drift in what risks you are willing to take compared to normal safe diving practices. It seems like a textbook example of normalization of deviance. Everyone makes mistakes, of course, and we are all stupid from time to time. If you had planned with ample gas reserves, you probably would have had more of a buffer before you ran low on air, even while distracted. Maybe having a pony allowed you to not be as vigilant about gas planning and keeping track? Why did you allow yourself to get so close to the NDL that being distracted had you go into deco? Are you diving as aggressively solo as you would with a buddy? A more conservative approach would have allowed for more mistakes, which we all commit. Whatever the reason for the lack of conservatism in your dive, for some divers a pony might contribute to this.

Who knows. Having the pony generally gives me more leeway. Generally I run out of time before air, not sure why that did not happen on this dive. I was using a new regulator that seemed to be set up very easy to inhale and I had not been diving for longer than normal (like 2 weeks), so maybe those were possible reasons, but obviously I was careless and distracted to a considerable degree. Perhaps this incident will encourage me to be more careful going forward.

As for aggressive diving, I probably dive more aggressive when nobody is dependent upon me underwater, which is more often than not lately.

As for the deco status, I often deliberately go into deco, but just a few minutes, not more than I feel confident that I can clear with the air in my main tank OR the air in my pony, so as mentioned it was not that big of a deal for me. I knew I could make it up on the pony, but I do not like to depend on the pony. And it is disappointing and irresponsible to place myself in that vulnerable situation without making a conscious decision to do so.

Someone can easily claim that in this specific situation, the pony was used as a crutch for stupid diving, which is not an unfair assessment. On the other hand, I am typically not that stupid and for the vast majority of dives, the pony is providing insurance for unexpected gear failure, rather than brain farts. Not to mention, I would be quite uncomfortable diving past about 60 feet without my own redundancy; I have seen too many things happen to do otherwise.

In this situation, I possibly could have done the whole ascent sipping the main tank, but that was not a given.

If you step back and think about it, relying on a pony to get you to the surface presents the same amount of risk as relying on a single primary bottle (with no redundancy) to get you to the surface (assuming the remaining volumes in each tank are the same). In either situation, you are betting that one system will not fail. As mentioned I try to avoid being dependent on one system to make it home.

 

[Boarderguy]

Proper gas planning is not what you think it is. It absolutely takes into account gas sharing and critical failures.

"Proper" gas planning, 3rds, do take into account catastrophic failures and are used more frequently in situations where you absolutely need the buffer (caves, wrecks, very deep, etc). The average rec diver is using a turn pressure of about 1/2 with a plan to return in the 500-750 range. A critical failure (incident if you had a pony) is now an emergency. Dark, cold, snowy waters and your 6ft of separation is enough to cause problems. Having a redundant air source gives you time to address most problems while you either 1) get to your buddy and begin sharing back gas or 2) signal and surface while not being tethered to your buddy.

When I dive I'm not going to babysit a shịtty partner unless they're my family. I dive so I can go see what I want. I'm often on a scooter and now that I have my own it will be even more so. We're all down there to float and be away from people. If I'm with a buddy that can't fin next to me when I'm at a slow speed or hold onto my tow handle, then they aren't my type of buddy. If they're diving with me they either have their own redundancy or know how to do a cesa. If they're with me they know I have a pony and will keep an eye out for them, but I won't be watching them. Team diving makes sense in critical environments. Rec diving with light deco (under 10 min) I'd rather be solo or with a solo mindset buddy. Gas planning for my style of diving is what will get me to see what I want to and back up. That includes my pony in case I end up needing more deco time because I saw something and wanted to watch it longer or got distracted by a nosy 6 gill... absolutes get people killed and kill conversations.

 

[johndiver999]

I never understood this sentiment. Buddy diving is a two way street. Even with terrible and non-attentive buddies, I've never gotten separated. Why? If they are not reliable, I take 100% of the responsibility to stay close to my buddy. Is that fun? No, that's why I prefer better buddies. But it would take a lot for someone to get away from me underwater, unless I'm not paying attention. So maybe the people saying this are not the most attentive themselves...


Proper gas planning is not what you think it is. It absolutely takes into account gas sharing and critical failures.

If your profile is correct, you only have a few to several dozen dives. Do hundreds more dives, with different characters in varying conditions of current, visibility and dive objectives and you will almost assuredly look up and see nobody around you. Generally you should have a good idea which way to begin to look, but still sheet happens. Have you ever had a buddy panic and bail or have an equipment problem and just leave? It will happen sooner or later.

Also, what activities are you doing during a dive? What are your goals, photography, exploring, hunting? or is it just to play follow the leader? If you are trying to capture a particular image or scene with a video or camera, your attention is necessarily focused on that subject for X amount of time. What if a diver spears a fish and so does his buddy? Do you think both people are available physically or mentally to provide assistance? Not happening. A buddy system can and does work for a lot of people, but not for everyone all the time.

 

[johndiver999]

Proper gas planning is not what you think it is. It absolutely takes into account gas sharing and critical failures.

Really for recreational diving? I think not. The planing is for one critical failure NOT two. You have a critical failure, you go to your pony and the buddy is on his own to make the ascent. If he runs out of gas or has a simultaneous, instantaneous critical failure (and he does not have redundancy himself), then you buddy breathe or die.

We don't plan for everything.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

If someone is that freaked out about critical failures all the time and that’s all they think about the entire dive, that doesn’t sound like fun to me. I would find a new hobby.
I’ve dived with people like that whose entire lives revolved around “critical failures” and “what if’s”. They are no fun to be around.
In a cave or a deep wreck sure, but let’s not get carried away with basic recreational dives.
Just keep your gear in shape and pick brands that don’t explode.
To pony or not to pony, that is the question , sure why not? If it makes you feel better and safer go for it. They are way more reliable than a buddy, they are always there.

But to me it’s kind of like the old joke about the tourist driving along and comes to a fork in the road. He asks a local sitting on a porch if it makes any difference which road he takes. The local says “Not to me it don’t!”.
Peace

 

[MidOH]

Really for recreational diving? I think not. The planing is for one critical failure NOT two. You have a critical failure, you go to your pony and the buddy is on his own to make the ascent. If he runs out of gas or has a simultaneous, instantaneous critical failure (and he does not have redundancy himself), then you buddy breathe or die.

We don't plan for everything.

Less than a 1% chance, that my buddy has any idea what "buddy breathing" is.

If it's practical to take a pony, I do. Airplane vacation diving, nope. An al40 is nearly a decent dive by itself. Nice to extend dives for a big guy.

 

[Boarderguy]

Airplane vacation diving, nope.

That's what the 13/19cf tanks are for. Truly brilliant use of them.

 

[MidOH]

I might try renting one next time I burn a whole week.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Less than a 1% chance, that my buddy has any idea what "buddy breathing" is.

If it's practical to take a pony, I do. Airplane vacation diving, nope. An al40 is nearly a decent dive by itself. Nice to extend dives for a big guy.

Unless a dedicated buddy team practices buddy breathing all the time and they get really really good at it, it’s a false sense of security with a stranger or someone that has not practiced it.
Buddy breathing is probably one of the more dangerous things untrained and unpracticed divers can do. Two breaths turns into three turns into four, the next thing you know one of them is starting to panic getting CO2 overload, the other doesn’t want to give it back, etc. it turns into a big sh!t show.
Just stick to modern protocols -
Or a pony

 

[BlueTrin]

Scubaboard is not populated by the average diver.

If you look at ANDP students doing the buddy breathing and how that goes, then you can imagine that many rec divers will be unable to buddy breathe and ascend at the same time together. Many non-tech divers just struggle to ascend together, at a similar rate, on an alternate air source.

Personally, I wish I had a pony for these Egypt family trips where I am insta buddied and going without my kit, but I don’t have one.