Are dive computers making bad divers?

[boulderjohn]

But that's the whole point of learning tables... If you need to get your butt out of a jam.... You can... Without the knowledge of tables and DECO your $hit out of luck...

Jim...

He was talking about needing to do 20 minutes of deco, and he did not have any kind of redundant timing device. This is technical diving, and technical divers are supposed to carry redundant timing devices. They are required to have a clear deco plan and backup. That is very different from the rest of this thread.

If the only thing you have to do if a computer fails is do a safe ascent and a 3 minute safety stop, it is not so much of a problem.

BTW, the only timing device I have ever had fail while diving is a dive watch.

 

[USdiver1]

IMHO, the entry level course in SCUBA that was taught when I learned in 1977, using as our textbook The New Science of Skin and Scuba Diving, was superior to the entry level courses taught today with each agency's proprietary textbooks. I believe we covered more topics, and delved deeper into each of them (especially the physics and physiology of diving) than today's neophyte divers do in the typical O/W class.

I agree that as one progresses through the different levels of continuing education, today's diver has a wealth of learning opportunities available to him/her that vastly outnumber what was available 40 years ago. I encourage all certified divers to attain in the very least a Rescue Diver or equivalent level. It is for your own safety, as well as that of your dive buddy/companion.

Nevertheless there are several skills that I consider imperative to good diver safety that are no longer obligatory in basic level training: learning how to use the dive tables; buddy breathing - sharing one second stage between two or three divers; emergency respiration from one's buoyancy vest (using the compressed air within the vest's bladder); the importance of proper weighting, for both trim and obtaining neutral buoyancy at the beginning of your dive (full tank and maximum depth) without the need to inflate your vest; doffing and donning your scuba equipment underwater. These are just a few of the skills that I was taught and believe should still form part of every diver's basic education.

 

[DiveNav]

.....BTW, the only timing device I have ever had fail while diving is a dive watch.

Because it is a modern technology.
You should have brought with you an hourglass. Or, even better, count the time in your mind.

Just kidding

 

[Littlerayray]

IMHO, the entry level course in SCUBA that was taught when I learned in 1977, using as our textbook The New Science of Skin and Scuba Diving, was superior to the entry level courses taught today with each agency's proprietary textbooks. I believe we covered more topics, and delved deeper into each of them (especially the physics and physiology of diving) than today's neophyte divers do in the typical O/W class.

I agree that as one progresses through the different levels of continuing education, today's diver has a wealth of learning opportunities available to him/her that vastly outnumber what was available 40 years ago. I encourage all certified divers to attain in the very least a Rescue Diver or equivalent level. It is for your own safety, as well as that of your dive buddy/companion.

Nevertheless there are several skills that I consider imperative to good diver safety that are no longer obligatory in basic level training: learning how to use the dive tables; buddy breathing - sharing one second stage between two or three divers; emergency respiration from one's buoyancy vest (using the compressed air within the vest's bladder); the importance of proper weighting, for both trim and obtaining neutral buoyancy at the beginning of your dive (full tank and maximum depth) without the need to inflate your vest; doffing and donning your scuba equipment underwater. These are just a few of the skills that I was taught and believe should still form part of every diver's basic education.

I was taught donning and doffing my equipment underwater as well as buddy breathing and we did go into depth about physiological changes that happen under water we also spent a lot of time on our tables as well as what some divers would call extreme an extreme drill to pass our pool session our instructor also had us doing drills with our mask flooded as well as without a mask so we can be comfortable and not panic if and when our mask gets knocked off our face
The quality of the course depends heavily on the instructor and not the organization

 

[Patoux01]

emergency respiration from one's buoyancy vest (using the compressed air within the vest's bladder);

While I'm totally one of the "better in pain that dead" guys. I'm not sure I want the massive lung infection you'd get from that "because at some point in my life I might be dumb enough to run out of air on both my air supplies and have my buddy somehow disappear on me". Sorry, but no, just no.

 

[dmaziuk]

While I'm totally one of the "better in pain that dead" guys. I'm not sure I want the massive lung infection you'd get from that "because at some point in my life I might be dumb enough to run out of air on both my air supplies and have my buddy somehow disappear on me". Sorry, but no, just no.

I'm not sure how likely that massive lung infection actually is IRL, I'd be more concerned with the amount of air I can get out of my wing. The way I dive: zero.

 

[boulderjohn]

Because it is a modern technology.
You should have brought with you an hourglass. Or, even better, count the time in your mind.

Just kidding

How deep can you take a standard hourglass without it breaking under pressure? Are there any 200m hourglasses?

(Just kidding back.)

 

[dmaziuk]

How deep can you take a standard hourglass without it breaking under pressure? Are there any 200m hourglasses?

But if you fill it with liquid and adjust the sand weight... say, lead shot in alcohol...

 

[boulderjohn]

In open water diving, there are much better alternatives to both buddy breathing off one regulator and sucking air out of the BCD. Doing either of those is more dangerous than those alternatives. Pretty much everyone has an alternate air source these days, and I would much rather do a CESA from almost any recreational depth than use either of those methods.

Research done decades ago by Dr. Glen Egstrom showed that it took very many (17, IIRC) successful practice sessions by a buddy team to ensure that they could buddy breathe effectively in a real life situation, and the team must practice it regularly to maintain that proficiency. The only case I know of in which it was attempted recently occurred in Florida a couple of years ago. A woman was using a rental regulator set without an alternate and ended up buddy breathing with a man. Both of them drowned. I believe the lawsuit over the rental gear not having an alternate is still ongoing.

As some have noted, you will not get much air breathing off a BCD, and you will be losing buoyancy during your ascent as you do it. More importantly, there is no need for it in a recreational dive, since either a CESA or a buoyant emergency ascent should get you to the surface just fine.

 

[TMHeimer]

Only important thing is you get to the surface. CESA is great. I can do it from 30' and usually limit solo diving to that depth--or a tad more. Buoyant ascent--maybe the bends, but you probably live. BCD breathing--infection, loss of buoyancy ascending, but may work. Atl. air ascent with buddy--works great in the pool, but panic at some point could create real problems in a real emergency, so I've heard.