Are dive computers making bad divers?

[decompression]

You're confusing phobias and psuedo science for being 'disciplined'. There's little actual research into which gasses to use. The high priests have so ordained it and everyobne scrambles trying to justify it.

Don't sugar coat it Pete, how do you really feel?


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---------- Post added December 8th, 2015 at 06:52 PM ----------

Ratio Deco is fantasy based at best. More divers, per capita, get bent on that, than any PDC or other table. Probably all of them combined.

My point was not that they were the best gasses for diving cause they don't really comply for any best gas process. they are the best 3 gasses for using ratio deco that are used over a great depth range, with each gas to their own depth band. As such using them makes it easy to do the ratio deco and no longer need the reliance upon computers. The dicipline in DIR is based on use of those gasses. With out that they would be hosed. I have recently seen an article using ratio deco in recreational diving based on ean32 as a standard gas.

Pete, was the article in question using mindeco or ratio deco? Can you post the link? Thanks.


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[boulderjohn]

Pete, was the article in question using mindeco or ratio deco? Can you post the link? Thanks.

Assuming the problem with this was a problem with Pete using a tablet while on vacation, I went to the last few posts and fixed the coding so that the quotes came out as intended. The person to whom you need to address the question is KWS, and I am sure he is talking about mindeco and not ratio deco.

When I learned mindeco while a part of UTD, we were told clearly and explicitly that is was a system for EANx 32 only. I have since learned that UTD has made an air version of that system.

 

[NAM001]

thanks I was not aware or did not remember the name given to ean32 stuff. the other is still called ratio deco though. I probably am using the wrong terminology. Ill see if I can find the article again. Im a computer user my self but I like to underatand things and use the knowledge as a check and balance.

Assuming the problem with this was a problem with Pete using a tablet while on vacation, I went to the last few posts and fixed the coding so that the quotes came out as intended. The person to whom you need to address the question is KWS, and I am sure he is talking about mindeco and not ratio deco.

When I learned mindeco while a part of UTD, we were told clearly and explicitly that is was a system for EANx 32 only. I have since learned that UTD has made an air version of that system.

 

[decompression]

Thanks John.


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[NAM001]

Here is the link for the article I read about ratio deco using ean32 at recreational depths. My first thought was here is a bridge to ease into tech methods.

Ratio deco for recreational dives

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

OK, so... If if I am on vacation and my Oceanic Geo 2 farts out on the 9th dive of the day (and it is day 3) in Bonaire...

Then, my Oceanic dive B.U.D. (Only used on vacations) floods on me during the dive...

So I pull out the NAUI OCEANx "Oxygen Calculator Enriched Air Nitrox" wheel in my BC pocket and figure the past 8 dives to the air equivalent...

Then, I cross check it with the PADI "Recreational Dive Planner" tables to find out I am currently a D Diver and...

Double check it against the NAUI EAN 32 Dive Tables only to find out that...

I should have been looking everything up on the U.S. Navy dive tables in the first place...

Only to finally remember that I have been hovering here on the edge of the wall at 15' since this all began an hour ago...

Crap, now I have to figure out if this is a safety stop, or do I have to ascend to 10' for a deco stop?
---

Yes, I learned to dive tables long before dive computers... My first dive "computer" was a bottom timer that activated when I hit the water. When I was a teen, I used to listen to the divers over the radio on the boat playing "imitation" games with the dive tables back and forth.

Dive classes still learn the tables, but are encouraged to buy or rent a computer because they offer better results and longer bottom times. When my son wanted to get certified, I made sure he was working the tables until it really became boring for him (at that point, I knew he would never forget how to work a table).

<Reminisce on> Early in my days here on ScubaBoard, I heard about a course on Nitrox Dive Computer certification (Pete, don't chastise me if that was not the name of the course). There were a lot of bad reviews from people who had; never heard of, never wanted to hear of, thought it was a completely ridiculous idea to teach... you name it, it was a bad idea all around for this thread... Even I thought it was a potentially bad idea.

Pete (Netdoc, the Chairman) was the instructor, and I had never met him, nor did I know who he was. I offered to "audit" the course, make notes and post a critique for everyone; good, bad or indifferent... And, Pete agreed without knowing anything about me.

I did have to make the trek to Orlando for the evening, but I was certainly surprised by the class work. By the end of my review, even the sternest disagreements were swayed to understanding that this was not just a class on EAN dive computers, but was also a refresh of dive tables, both standards and EAN...<Reminisce off>

Moral...

Can't we all just dive together?



Secondary Moral...

Dive computers aren't making bad divers...

1. Bad divers are using computers as an excuse
2. Bad instructors are allowing bad divers to rely completely on computers
3. Bad instructors are only in it for the dollar
4. Bad divers are getting a 'pass' from bad instructors

[-]5. PADI is the Devil[/-]

 

[Reku]

In 2010 when I did my OW cert I learned on tables without a computer and honestly I am glad to have done that because now I have a firm grasp of what my petrels are displaying to me and why they are displaying it.

I'm also a programmer so I'm interested in the algorithmic foundations of scuba diving and the tables have helped me understand. While I do like the tables I use my computers and cut tables from multideco for all of my dives because it's just easier for multi level dives.

I do think that people are too reliant on computer only diving but honestly you can't really fix it or change it so I just keep on diving and if something happens to them that's why I have redundant systems.

If they want to just trust the computer with their lives that's on them. (this from a rec point of view, any tech dives done I expect everyone to know how to use/cut tables completely without issues.)

Interesting Topic/Discussion so far.

 

[KenGordon]

How many people get bent due to running out of gas because of unplanned stops?

 

[Reku]

How many people get bent due to running out of gas because of unplanned stops?

Personally - If I didn't dive with backup systems and always have tons of gas - there would of been at least 10 bent divers. People need to learn how to read their computers and track their gas usage and follow the dive plan, generally we have a bottom time or gas limit - whatever happens first on our dives - people get caught up in the moment and seem to just forget all the training... these things are why I prefer to dive alone. It's just safer for me.

 

[KenGordon]

You have had 10 computer failures? We're these people buddies, random divers or what? How much deco was stopping them surfacing?