Are Converted Scubapro 109's a weak link?

[buddhasummer]

Because parts are no longer available.
Bodies, covers, adjustment knob, etc have all been discontinued.

You can use G250V adjustment knobs.

All service parts are available, all parts once converted are same as G260 save lever which is still available, exhaust valve and main diaphragm are still available.

IMO That's no reason to tell someone not to buy one.

 

[buddhasummer]

... unless you're a shop wanting to sell a new reg

 

[buddhasummer]

Ah it is a shop

 

[Whitrzac]

You can use G250V adjustment knobs.

All service parts are available, all parts once converted are same as G260 save lever which is still available, exhaust valve and main diaphragm are still available.

IMO That's no reason to tell someone not to buy one.

Do they just fit, or is it an approved substitution by scubapro?
Bodies and covers are not.
There have been a handfull of g250s come into the shop with cracked bodies in the past year...

 

[Nemrod]

Because parts are no longer available.
Bodies, covers, adjustment knob, etc have all been discontinued.

Internal parts are available but true that the body, cover, purge button etc. are NLA. The G250 was made for many years and was possibly Scubapros most popular regulator and imitated to this day by others. There is a plentiful supply of them to scrounge from for a lifetime. Scubapro purposely made the clocking of the air barrel in the G260 off from the G250 to prevent us from making conversions. I have not tried it yet but I think the G260 parts will slip right in. Simon may know the answer. The G series and S series regulators are 30% glass fiber reinforced nylon housings and they are super tough. I have never seen one broken, beat to Hades and scratched all up as if through a meat grinder, but broken, never. But, I am sure it can happen and has.

 

[Whitrzac]

Internal parts are available but true that the body, cover, purge button etc. are NLA. The G250 was made for many years and was possibly Scubapros most popular regulator and imitated to this day by others. There is a plentiful supply of them to scrounge from for a lifetime. Scubapro purposely made the clocking of the air barrel in the G260 off from the G250 to prevent us from making conversions. I have not tried it yet but I think the G260 parts will slip right in. Simon may know the answer. The G series and S series regulators are 30% glass fiber reinforced nylon housings and they are super tough. I have never seen one broken, beat to Hades and scratched all up as if through a meat grinder, but broken, never. But, I am sure it can happen and has.

Again, just because it fits, doesn't mean its an approved substitution.

It works at home, but not at a shop that has to maintain liability coverage.

 

[Nemrod]

Do you have the TSB for that?
Things that were OK in 1973 isnt necessarily the case 50 years later.
Nobody is disagreeing that they're decent regs, most dive shops won't work on them because parts other than basic rebuilds are no longer available.

There was never a SB to my knowledge to do so or not to do so. I worked for several Scubapro shops in the 70s and again for a bit in the 80s and it was just common knowledge. And support was available in those days only a phone call away or snail mail. Scubapro did it themselves when they took the 109 case and made it a BA. The parts diagrams show it all. Now with Scubapro under the Johnson Outdoors umbrella, I am sure that is why Scubapro tech support frowns on our shop conversions and reclocked the G260 air barrel or made it not backward compatible as has been the case for prior products having a high degree of compatibility, forward or backwards. Believe it or not, some people prefer the non balanced valve set up and convert 156 Balanced Adjustables to non balanced essentially then a 109.

Let me restate this. There was never a SB to my knowledge but the PLs identified the parts assemblies and compatibility and thereby approved the use of the parts to convert to balanced or to convert to non balanced. I appreciate though what you are saying that today there are legal concerns. And Johnson Outdoors likes a profitable Scubapro.

Actually, I was in the local Scubapro shop and the "tech" called Scubapro for a question about the Mark 20 SB and they answered his question real time and sent the service kits for free. Scubapro still answers the phone sometimes, try that with Aqua Lung!

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Do you have the TSB for that?
Things that were OK in 1973 isnt necessarily the case 50 years later.
Nobody is disagreeing that they're decent regs, most dive shops won't work on them because parts other than basic rebuilds are no longer available.

It depends on the dive shop.
My dive shop will work on any of that stuff.
There is a tech there that is a 109 aficionado and has done 156 conversions, restorations, etc.
Any G250, no problem, they have spare parts laying around and will gladly do whatever they can to get old stuff up and running if possible. Most of the time it is possible. Their philosophy is “Yes we can” not “No we can’t, buy something new or get out of here”, because with the latter attitude you run the risk if pissing someone off with your tone and they could go somewhere else to buy the new reg, and you’ll never see them again.
I even turned them on to some of our DIY sources for parts which they didn’t know about because they are not really into the internet world. Even though they are primarily a Scubapro shop, they are not a puppet for corporate Scubapro and believe in taking liberties to help accommodating customers in a “custom” fashion.
They continually ask me if I’d like to take the tech position some day because the current tech want’s to retire and I’m romancing the idea. I would continue the tradition of accommodating customers any way I could the same as they do now.

 

[buddhasummer]

A G250HP main diaphragm other than colour is the same as a G250 diaphragm, dimension wise, did SP ever approve it as a substitute, no, but unofficially they advise one as a substitute.

Last time I tried to order G250V exhaust diaphragms I was advised they were NLA but again SP suggested using a G260 diaphragm in its place, again official approval was never given to my knowledge.

A G250V adjustment knob fits a G250 because other than being satin it's the same, no approval has been given.

The conversion to S-wing poppet was approved.

Using a G250 graphite diaphragm friction ring in a G250 was never approved but it can be done and why not, it's the same reg for all intents and purposes. Would a shop not change it because it's not the same part number as one found on a G250, I guess for liability reasons they may not, but come on

I understand for liability concerns a shop will shy away but I highly doubt that's the reason the shop told him not to buy one, given they cannot be purchased new the only reason I can think of is they are trying to sell him a new reg.

Service kits are still available so they can still be officially serviced. If service kits were no longer available and they were particular to that reg I could understand a shop saying stay away.

I also assume the shop does not sell them second hand or perhaps they would recommend one, I don't know.

I take your point re liability concerns, I'm not a shop, but as I said I don't think that's why the shop said it and for the average consumer there is no reason at all to steer clear of them just because you can't buy new cases as there are millions of them floating around.

In most cases I'd hazard the average shop tech knows very little about discontinued models, not a criticism, just a fact.

@Nemrod you cannot fit a G260 barrel into a G250.

 

[Justin Phillips]

Don't forget to DM your email address.

Shot it over this morning