Are Converted Scubapro 109's a weak link?

[lexvil]

The weak link in your story is not the hardware.

 

[Nemrod]

Your tech or whatever is full of dung!

There are two issues with balanced conversions of the 109. One is the relatively small exhaust valve and slightly restrictive tee compared to the G250/G260. The other is lack of a Venturi control. But all in all a 109 will perform very close to the newest regulators.

 

[Whitrzac]

I told you so.
If you want to use old equipment with parts no longer available from the manufacturer, don't expect a shop to work on them.

Was it the 2400psi yoke or the 3000psi one?

 

[Justin Phillips]

I told you so.
If you want to use old equipment with parts no longer available from the manufacturer, don't expect a shop to work on them.

Was it the 2400psi yoke or the 3000psi one?

3000 PSI

 

[Justin Phillips]

Your tech or whatever is is full of dung!

There are two issues with balanced conversions of the 109. One is the relatively small exhaust valve and slightly restrictive tee compared to the G250/G260. The other is lack of a Venturi control. But all in all a 109 will perform very close to the newest regulators.

I don’t know what breathing easier would be like. I have only had them down to 90 feet but they are a dream, and that is all the way closed!

 

[scrane]

The older brass Scubapro seconds are OK, but nothing special compared with more modern regulators in performance. Their main asset as far as I’m concerned is they can be obtained in expensively and maintained with little effort. Being soft metal they can be prone to cosmetic damage, with the adjustment knob on the 109 being particularly vulnerable. They can be a lot of fun to learn and play with.

 

[Nemrod]

I don’t know what breathing easier would be like. I have only had them down to 90 feet but they are a dream, and that is all the way closed!

I did not say anything about breathing easier what ever that might mean to you. Folks fixate on cracking effort and again there are three parameters that together determine the WOB:

1. Cracking effort
2. Venturi flow
3. Exhaust effort

Exhaust effort has been shown to be as important or more so to diver fatigue. I did say the smaller exhaust valve of 26mm of the 109 compared to the 30mm exhaust valve of the G250/G260 and other modern Scubapro seconds is measurably more restrictive. When I use my Magnehelic I can measure it and I can definitly feel the restrictive exhaust of the 109 as I am particularly sensitive to exhaust effort compared to the G250 series. The CE approved 156 BA with the larger exhaust valve is more comparable in overall WOB to the G250. A CE 156 BA vs 109 for exhaust valve comparison:



The 109 is an excellent regulator but it's WOB, while still very good, is not an equal of the G250 or G260. The difference is measurable so it is not opinion. The 109 is still a completely adequate regulator for all sport diving uses.

Not sure what breathing like a dream at 90 feet means with the knob all the way closed? My four 109s and my one CE 156 BA and my fleet of G250s and G260s are set to barely free flow with the knob fully out and with the knob fully turned in they breath like I am sucking against a vacuum cleaner until the Venturi kicks in and in the pre-dive position (G250/G260), knob fully in, they are pretty stiff.

 

[OrcasC205]

If you want to use old equipment with parts no longer available from the manufacturer, don't expect a shop to work on them.

In the OP's case where it sounds like the reg has been converted to the s-wing poppet (i.e. converted to a balanced adjustable), the service kits are still available since it is exactly the same kit as used by the G250 and S600 (and many other popular regs.) I think the kit for the original 109 (unbalanced) is also probably still available since it has all the same parts as the G200 and M50.

 

[buddhasummer]

In the OP's case where it sounds like the reg has been converted to the s-wing poppet (i.e. converted to a balanced adjustable), the service kits are still available since it is exactly the same kit as used by the G250 and S600 (and many other popular regs.) I think the kit for the original 109 (unbalanced) is also probably still available since it has all the same parts as the G200 and M50.

You are right OG 109 still available with the duro poppet.

 

[Whitrzac]

In the OP's case where it sounds like the reg has been converted to the s-wing poppet (i.e. converted to a balanced adjustable), the service kits are still available since it is exactly the same kit as used by the G250 and S600 (and many other popular regs.) I think the kit for the original 109 (unbalanced) is also probably still available since it has all the same parts as the G200 and M50.

There's a difference between an individual servicing a reg thats been converted to something other than what they were originally, and a dive shop servicing them who needs to follow manufactures service guides, tsbs, etc in order to maintain liability coverage if something goes wrong.

Can you imagine the amount of lawyers that would come out of the woodwork if someone had an accident on a 'converted' 109?
Same reason why they didn't want to work on the mk25 with mk10 yoke. Are they the same? probobly. Does scubapro say they're compatible? No.