AquaSafari

[redacted]

I actually wrote that in my post then removed it lest I be accused of bashing AS without proof. For now, I'll go with the working theory that they just did not notice the flag.

The problem with that theory is you then believe that what we have here is a group of divers towing a recognised marker in an area frequented by both boats and divers and the boat crew (captain, mate, and one or two Dms) who all missed the marker and ran over the diver's location without even knowing divers were in the area. I'd prefer to hope that at least one of them saw the marker (and the divers and their bubbles) and determined that there was no cause for alarm. That scenario does not scare me as much. But it does still leave the question that has been asked by a few posters now as to what the requirements are for boats honoring dive markers in Cozumel in terms of distance and speed. Perhaps the requirement is as simple as be aware of their presense and don't hit anybody. If that were the case, then all we really have here is a misunderstanding that could have been handled a bit better. No harm, no foul.

I knew there was a reason I always like to surface either in a protected area or under the DM after I watch him/her on the surface for a bit. Whenever I can, I like to stay down at 3 meters until the boat arrives, the prop(s) stop, and other divers start boarding.

 

[Christi]

But it does still leave the question that has been asked by a few posters now as to what the requirements are for boats honoring dive markers in Cozumel in terms of distance and speed. Perhaps the requirement is as simple as be aware of their presense and don't hit anybody. If that were the case, then all we really have here is a misunderstanding that could have been handled a bit better. No harm, no foul.

I knew there was a reason I always like to surface either in a protected area or under the DM after I watch him/her on the surface for a bit. Whenever I can, I like to stay down at 3 meters until the boat arrives, the prop(s) stop, and other divers start boarding.

Mago and Pedro say that within 25 meters of a dive flag, they are required to maintain idling speed (no wake). This is for the purpose of following & picking up the divers. Dive flags/buoys always have the "right of way."

When navigating the channel at full speed, the distance is 50 meters.

From my own experience, it is not at all uncommon for a boat out over the reef to have a surface marker pulled under the boat as the divers are being pulled by the current, but typically this happens when a boat is sitting idle. The difference is that the boats stay as close to their divers as they can...or at least ahead of their path...and the divers are either still at depth or at the safety stop. Regardless, the captains who are close to a buoy also see the bubbles and can actually see the divers below when they are on top of them due to the clarity of the water. This doesn't alarm me or cause me concern.

Those of you who dive here frequently may have also noticed that the DM's always surface over the reef or just to the inside of the reef. This is to stay out of the navigational channel. This also applies at paradise where this incident occurred.

If I was at my safety stop, over the reef (out of the channel) and a boat ran over my buoy at full speed...that would be reason to be concerned.

The point here is that it is ALSO OUR RESPONSIBILITY AS DIVERS to STAY OUT of the navigational channels. If we choose to be in this zone, then we must also accept some responsibility.

Gary, I do the same thing you do...I wait until everyone has gotten on the boat (when possible) and then surface...in the meantime, hanging at 10 to 15 feet).

 

[teknitroxdiver]

Is the channel between the reef and shore, or seaward of the reef?

 

[redacted]

Mago and Pedro say that within 25 meters of a dive flag, they are required to maintain idling speed (no wake). This is for the purpose of following & picking up the divers. Dive flags/buoys always have the "right of way."

When navigating the channel at full speed, the distance is 50 meters.

From my own experience, it is not at all uncommon for a boat out over the reef to have a surface marker pulled under the boat as the divers are being pulled by the current, but typically this happens when a boat is sitting idle. The difference is that the boats stay as close to their divers as they can...or at least ahead of their path...and the divers are either still at depth or at the safety stop. Regardless, the captains who are close to a buoy also see the bubbles and can actually see the divers below when they are on top of them due to the clarity of the water. This doesn't alarm me or cause me concern.

Those of you who dive here frequently may have also noticed that the DM's always surface over the reef or just to the inside of the reef. This is to stay out of the navigational channel. This also applies at paradise where this incident occurred.

If I was at my safety stop, over the reef (out of the channel) and a boat ran over my buoy at full speed...that would be reason to be concerned.

The point here is that it is ALSO OUR RESPONSIBILITY AS DIVERS to STAY OUT of the navigational channels. If we choose to be in this zone, then we must also accept some responsibility.

Gary, I do the same thing you do...I wait until everyone has gotten on the boat (when possible) and then surface...in the meantime, hanging at 10 to 15 feet).

If you have access to gloogle earth, you might want to take a look at the site under discussion. It shows up quite clearly. It looks to me like the distance from the shore to the first dropoff (blue-green waters) is about 50 meters. You can see a number of boats along that the line of that first dropoff. Then it looks like about another 150 meter of light blue water to the coral reef which show up as a dark strip. Looks like one of the Fury Cats sitting there about 400 meters NE of the marina entrance about 100 meters off shore. Then it is another 150+ meters of blue water from the coral to the deep dropoff and the deep dark waters where traveling boats tend to navigate. You can see one larger boat offshore from the catemeran traveling SW at a good speed. TNDs map has been removed but, if I recall correctly, he went out no further than the coral strip 200 meters from shore and the incident looked like it happened within 100 meterws of shore and somewhat NE of the marina entrance.

Too bad the southern reefs are not a clear as paradise in these satelite images.

Thanks

BTW, if you really want to see good resolution tak a look at the coutyard inside the inner ring of the pentagon - folks sitting on the benches. Or, better yet, go to Marble Arch in London and see the couple walking about 60 meters SSE of the arch. Hopefully better shots of Cozumel will become available.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

TNDs map has been removed but, if I recall correctly, he went out no further than the coral strip 200 meters from shore and the incident looked like it happened within 100 meterws of shore and somewhat NE of the marina entrance.

Too bad the southern reefs are not a clear as paradise in these satelite images.

Thanks

That is correct. I would say the incident happened more like 30-40 meters from shore, though.

If you don't have Google Earth, you can see the same thing by going to maps.google.com and zooming in on Cozumel's west shore.

 

[Christi]

Paradise is not as clear cut as the other reefs, since you can feasibly reach it from shore. However, the navigtional channel does include that area between the reef and the first drop off...driving home again why a local guide is required...because they KNOW this. The navigational channel also includes the area between the shore and the reef at other dive sites. The navigational channel is not restricted to the open water on the west side of the reefs.

If Tek was able to kick down deeper to get away from the boat as he claims, then he wasn't on the shelf as he claims, as it's only about 8 to 10 feet deep up on that shelf that extends out from the shore. That means that the boat was in the right place. Based on everything I've read and heard (from speaking with Bill)..the boat was right on the edge of that navigational channel dropping students and the instructor off so they could swim over to the shallow shelf for their Discover Course.

If you have access to gloogle earth, you might want to take a look at the site under discussion. It shows up quite clearly. It looks to me like the distance from the shore to the first dropoff (blue-green waters) is about 50 meters. You can see a number of boats along that the line of that first dropoff. Then it looks like about another 150 meter of light blue water to the coral reef which show up as a dark strip. Looks like one of the Fury Cats sitting there about 400 meters NE of the marina entrance about 100 meters off shore. Then it is another 150+ meters of blue water from the coral to the deep dropoff and the deep dark waters where traveling boats tend to navigate. You can see one larger boat offshore from the catemeran traveling SW at a good speed. TNDs map has been removed but, if I recall correctly, he went out no further than the coral strip 200 meters from shore and the incident looked like it happened within 100 meterws of shore and somewhat NE of the marina entrance.

Too bad the southern reefs are not a clear as paradise in these satelite images.

Thanks

 

[redacted]

Paradise is not as clear cut as the other reefs, since you can feasibly reach it from shore. However, the navigtional channel does include that area between the reef and the first drop off...driving home again why a local guide is required...because they KNOW this. The navigational channel also includes the area between the shore and the reef at other dive sites. The navigational channel is not restricted to the open water on the west side of the reefs.

If Tek was able to kick down deeper to get away from the boat as he claims, then he wasn't on the shelf as he claims, as it's only about 8 to 10 feet deep up on that shelf that extends out from the shore. That means that the boat was in the right place. Based on everything I've read and heard (from speaking with Bill)..the boat was right on the edge of that navigational channel dropping students and the instructor off so they could swim over to the shallow shelf for their Discover Course.

That makes sense and clears up just what is defined as the "navigational channel". But that means that the navigational channel includes most (maybe all) dive sites. Some might be assuming that the the dive sites and the navigational channel are somwewhat seperated in some way.

 

[teknitroxdiver]

Paradise is not as clear cut as the other reefs, since you can feasibly reach it from shore. However, the navigtional channel does include that area between the reef and the first drop off...driving home again why a local guide is required...because they KNOW this. The navigational channel also includes the area between the shore and the reef at other dive sites. The navigational channel is not restricted to the open water on the west side of the reefs.

If Tek was able to kick down deeper to get away from the boat as he claims, then he wasn't on the shelf as he claims, as it's only about 8 to 10 feet deep up on that shelf that extends out from the shore. That means that the boat was in the right place. Based on everything I've read and heard (from speaking with Bill)..the boat was right on the edge of that navigational channel dropping students and the instructor off so they could swim over to the shallow shelf for their Discover Course.

I never said I was on the shelf! I was NEAR the edge. (And you give ME a hard time about "selective reading"?)

Let me find the post....ah yes....here it is....

Yes. Swam out and back in on the bottom. This happened right where the bottom rises up steeply to the shallow water around the entrance. I think the nav channel is a little farther out than that. He wasn't transitioning the area anyway, he was coming in to drop divers.

Ok, I know exactly where you are referring to. i call that Paradise "wall." It drops from about 10 feet to 15 feet right there. If that is where it happened, then ys, he was oo close into shore.

A question for you, Christi: Let's say I took a local guide with me to do a shore dive there. How would he/she/you get out to the reef without swimming under the "navigational channel"?

 

[Mawg]

Yawn!

 

[redacted]

Yawn!

I thought covering your mouth when you yawned was just good manners.:11doh: