SparticleBrane
Contributor
But that's the best part!
Aqualung and gray markets...FYI
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nannymouse
Contributor
I have read all 151 posts on this thread (not the deleted ones) because my LDS is closing out their AL products because they have an online sales site. Will AL warranty my products? I purchased the gear at the shop, and walked out the door with it. Why does AL get tourqued about a multimedia retailer?
garyfotodiver
Contributor
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Apparently, some people do not get the idea; the MANUFACTURER WARRANTS THE PRODUCT, not the seller. Unless, of course, it is a "house" brand. I cannot imagine a sane businessman signing a contract that would make him liable for all the costs of providing warranty service. He would then only want to service the items that he has sold because he made some profit on them, and not service items that were bought somewhere else.
If you are traveling out of your local area and your SuooerDooper Hybrid automobile needs warranty service, the SooperDooper dealer who does the work charges, in some manner, the company that made the auto, not the selling dealer.
So I buy a new AL regulator here in Chicago and it breaks, two months after purchase, on my third dive in Key Largo. Do I return it to the Chicago dealer, or do I bring it to a LDS in Key Largo?
In your case, if the original selling dealer is unable to provide warranty support, the manufacturer or local distributor should be able to tell you where to bring or send your item for warranty support.
My biggest head-scratcher in all this is that, unless the AL merchandise is stolen from the AL warehouse, they did get paid their price for it. Now if the merchandise was stolen along the distribution chain, that is a crime; AL (or any other manufacturer who serializes their merchandise) should be able to trace it back to the original wholesale purchaser.
So howcome we never read about truckloads of scuba equipment getting hijacked? Surely the SCUBA media would want to broadcast this information, wouldn't they?
Now Gary...
We only report hijacked threads around here!
But I fully agree. Somehow, I don't think that dealers get to even charge for that warranty work.
We only report hijacked threads around here!
But I fully agree. Somehow, I don't think that dealers get to even charge for that warranty work.
vicdiver656
Guest
BTW, I think that is too much popcorn for this topic. This shouldn't even rate as a two bagger.[/QUOTE]
He is right, you can replace Aqualung with most other brands....unfortunately
He is right, you can replace Aqualung with most other brands....unfortunately
scubapro50
Contributor
A good example of warranty not worth the paper it's printed on is Dacor products produced before 2000. When Mares took over Dacor they deceided not to honor the "lifetime warranty" on regulators that were made before the takeover. They have giving many reasons for their deceision and have offered "trade in programs" to off set the shock of no longer finding factory aurthorized service for their products but the hard core fact is they decided that they wanted the brand name of Dacor and not the responsibility of honoring their warranty. It didn't matter where you purchased it Dacor doesn't want anything to due with it. I wonder if Leisure Pro or Scuba Toys sold you the Dacor gear if they will still provide parts and service in the future?
I'll add my .02 in, for what it's worth.
One thing that really irks me is that most LDS shops around here will not service items that were not sold by them, regardless of where/how you bought the item.
They have been drinking the Kool-Aid to the point that if they did not retail the item, they are not willing to stand behind it after they service it.
My friend bought all of his AL stuff from LP, and the LDS here will not touch it. It has real serial numbers and I'm sure that with 5 or less minutes of work on the phone, the LDS would be able to make a phone call to find out that the item is actually of AL OEM descent. Thus meaning it could be worked on, and is not a counterfeit item.
Which, in turn, nets the LDS some money, since the charges to service a reg are ridiculous around here, I know there is some markup in it, because the owner is the tech, it's not like hes working extra hours or putting in overnights to service stuff, he just sits around all day anyway waiting for a customer.
I guess I understand from the liability standpoint of the LDS, but shouldn't the trained AL technician be able to spot a counterfeit, or notice a fake or subpar item during the routine yearly service on the device?
I could understand if I walked into the LDS with "Jimbo's DX9000 SuperRegulator" and they didn't want to work on it. Any idiot can understand the risk they are taking.
But, regardless of where the item was bought, I understand that AL does not want to warranty or repair a gray market item, much like Canon and Nikon lenses. But any camera shop will fix a gray market lens if you pay them to, especially if you are not asking them to fix it under warranty.
And again, my friend was never asking for warranty service, only for yearly maintenance, and the LDS refused to do it, saying that it was probably a fake AL item and they would not service it because of liability if it was a fake and broke underwater.
It would seem to me that if the LDS serviced the item, hooked it up to pressure and was able to verify through their company policy that the item passed the tests required to be completed after service, that if the item broke underwater and was found to be fake/counterfeit, that the seller would be responsible. Not the LDS.
At the end of the day, the argument is simple. If it's an item that you are buying that is expensive enough to make you think "Wow, it would suck to have to buy this again if it was a dud when I got it or shortly into it's service life..." you should probably buy from an authorized dealer. (The reality is, LP has and will replace lemon items just like the original manufacturer, and in some cases, in a manner better than the OEM).
The only difference is the hassle of shipping it off to LP in the event of yearly service / warranty.
I still think it's a freaking joke that the LDS won't service items they didn't directly sell, especially because, if you think about it...
EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF AL GEAR THAT WAS SOLD WENT TO A VALID/VETTED DISTRIBUTOR. IF IT DIDN'T THEN THEY ARE DIRECTLY SELLING TO GRAY MARKET RETAILERS THUS VOIDING THEIR ENTIRE STATEMENT AS POSTED IN OP.
Meaning ---- if I call AL as an LDS and give a serial number for an item that was brought in for service, the call should go like this...
"This is Joe with the LDS"
"This is Mary with AquaLung"
"I Have a Reg here for service, bearing S/N:1234567"
"Ok, I show that S/N as belonging to a (_______), is that what you are holding in your hands?"
"Yes, thank you!"
It's ridiculous to assume that just because one of AL's distributors shipped the item to LP after purchase means that the item is forever banned from authorized service intervals because AL doesn't have a tighter rein on their outlets.
I'll bet money that if I died wearing an AL item that was purchased off of LP, even if it was gray market, when the lawyer tracked the S/N back to the AL factory, that they could be named in the lawsuit. No doubt in my mind.
Bearing that in mind, wouldn't you want all of your AL OEM items to be serviced at a certified service center?
The whole gray market thing is just a way for LP and AL to make money, and a way for AL to maintain "brand recognition" so their items can be sold for significant markup and be looked at as "Elite/Top of the Line", while at the same time allowing it to sell for a realistic price to maintain volume and appease shareholders/owners through LP/Gray Market.
If these companies wanted to shut down the gray market it would take one hour.
Request sales records from distributors to their clients. Any distributor showing more than (X) number of units per year is to be contacted directly for verification. The following year, each distributor can purchase last years figures in addition to (X) new units.
If certain distributors are showing exorbitant numbers in comparison, in order to remain a verified distributor, request all sales records showing where the items went. If one distributor shows a large volume to one location, check that location directly.
If the distribution chains don't want to cooperate, jerk their distributorship.
But this will never happen, because, and ONLY because:
AQUALUNG MAKES WAAAAAYYYY TOO MUCH MONEY FROM GRAY MARKET SALES.
End of discussion. As stated before, it's all about capitolism, and like I think, GratefulDiver said:
If they can sell at what they consider appropriate cost without having to honor a warranty or stand behind the item, thats win-win every day of the year for any company in the business of manufacturing anything.
One thing that really irks me is that most LDS shops around here will not service items that were not sold by them, regardless of where/how you bought the item.
They have been drinking the Kool-Aid to the point that if they did not retail the item, they are not willing to stand behind it after they service it.
My friend bought all of his AL stuff from LP, and the LDS here will not touch it. It has real serial numbers and I'm sure that with 5 or less minutes of work on the phone, the LDS would be able to make a phone call to find out that the item is actually of AL OEM descent. Thus meaning it could be worked on, and is not a counterfeit item.
Which, in turn, nets the LDS some money, since the charges to service a reg are ridiculous around here, I know there is some markup in it, because the owner is the tech, it's not like hes working extra hours or putting in overnights to service stuff, he just sits around all day anyway waiting for a customer.
I guess I understand from the liability standpoint of the LDS, but shouldn't the trained AL technician be able to spot a counterfeit, or notice a fake or subpar item during the routine yearly service on the device?
I could understand if I walked into the LDS with "Jimbo's DX9000 SuperRegulator" and they didn't want to work on it. Any idiot can understand the risk they are taking.
But, regardless of where the item was bought, I understand that AL does not want to warranty or repair a gray market item, much like Canon and Nikon lenses. But any camera shop will fix a gray market lens if you pay them to, especially if you are not asking them to fix it under warranty.
And again, my friend was never asking for warranty service, only for yearly maintenance, and the LDS refused to do it, saying that it was probably a fake AL item and they would not service it because of liability if it was a fake and broke underwater.
It would seem to me that if the LDS serviced the item, hooked it up to pressure and was able to verify through their company policy that the item passed the tests required to be completed after service, that if the item broke underwater and was found to be fake/counterfeit, that the seller would be responsible. Not the LDS.
At the end of the day, the argument is simple. If it's an item that you are buying that is expensive enough to make you think "Wow, it would suck to have to buy this again if it was a dud when I got it or shortly into it's service life..." you should probably buy from an authorized dealer. (The reality is, LP has and will replace lemon items just like the original manufacturer, and in some cases, in a manner better than the OEM).
The only difference is the hassle of shipping it off to LP in the event of yearly service / warranty.
I still think it's a freaking joke that the LDS won't service items they didn't directly sell, especially because, if you think about it...
EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF AL GEAR THAT WAS SOLD WENT TO A VALID/VETTED DISTRIBUTOR. IF IT DIDN'T THEN THEY ARE DIRECTLY SELLING TO GRAY MARKET RETAILERS THUS VOIDING THEIR ENTIRE STATEMENT AS POSTED IN OP.
Meaning ---- if I call AL as an LDS and give a serial number for an item that was brought in for service, the call should go like this...
"This is Joe with the LDS"
"This is Mary with AquaLung"
"I Have a Reg here for service, bearing S/N:1234567"
"Ok, I show that S/N as belonging to a (_______), is that what you are holding in your hands?"
"Yes, thank you!"
It's ridiculous to assume that just because one of AL's distributors shipped the item to LP after purchase means that the item is forever banned from authorized service intervals because AL doesn't have a tighter rein on their outlets.
I'll bet money that if I died wearing an AL item that was purchased off of LP, even if it was gray market, when the lawyer tracked the S/N back to the AL factory, that they could be named in the lawsuit. No doubt in my mind.
Bearing that in mind, wouldn't you want all of your AL OEM items to be serviced at a certified service center?
The whole gray market thing is just a way for LP and AL to make money, and a way for AL to maintain "brand recognition" so their items can be sold for significant markup and be looked at as "Elite/Top of the Line", while at the same time allowing it to sell for a realistic price to maintain volume and appease shareholders/owners through LP/Gray Market.
If these companies wanted to shut down the gray market it would take one hour.
Request sales records from distributors to their clients. Any distributor showing more than (X) number of units per year is to be contacted directly for verification. The following year, each distributor can purchase last years figures in addition to (X) new units.
If certain distributors are showing exorbitant numbers in comparison, in order to remain a verified distributor, request all sales records showing where the items went. If one distributor shows a large volume to one location, check that location directly.
If the distribution chains don't want to cooperate, jerk their distributorship.
But this will never happen, because, and ONLY because:
AQUALUNG MAKES WAAAAAYYYY TOO MUCH MONEY FROM GRAY MARKET SALES.
End of discussion. As stated before, it's all about capitolism, and like I think, GratefulDiver said:
If they can sell at what they consider appropriate cost without having to honor a warranty or stand behind the item, thats win-win every day of the year for any company in the business of manufacturing anything.
Oxy
Contributor
How is an illegal dealer getting this equipment????????????????????
shoturtle
Contributor
The poster you are referring to is doing the scare tactic. They are not an illegal dealer, they are a unauthorized dealer or gray market dealer. That does not mean it is fake product. Some people just want to pay more for gear. Remember AL already made their money when the distributors pay for the product. So they are not losing one cent.
If they were an illegal dealer, AL can have the FBI seize their stock.
Where are you? That certainly is not the case in my location.
The shops here are more than happy to service, test and assemble internet purchased items. Which incidently pisses many internet buyers off when the LDS expects (and deserves) to paid for their services.
This is often reported on forums such as this as "dirty and underhanded". (bastages!)
Tim
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