Aqualung and gray markets...FYI

[matts1w]

Oh, I should care that dive instructors aren't properly subsidized by overpriced gear? Is subsidy an integral part of our culture? Our community? You sound like I stamped out the Native Americans. Why doesn't anybody pay extra for their variance swaps and their credit default swaps? Aren't they concerned about my income? You are right, I'm not very communal; I'm more of a capitalist.

Vladamir-Relax, no one accused you of stamping out Native Americans. I'm not going to get into some sort of political/economic/yuppie vs. hippy debate. If you think LP is good for you and/or scuba in general..great. Again, more power to you. Do some training with them...go dive with the owners...etc...save a buck or two.

Peace.

 

[vladimir]

Completely relaxed here, but still confused. If I wanted training, why wouldn't I look for the best value I could find in training? That's what I do when I buy anything. (Actually not, but for discussion's sake.) Of course, dive gear is largely fungible (ie, one Atomic M1 is interchangeable with another), whereas training is not.

And I dive with myself, generally, occasionally with friends, but I never pay somebody to dive with me. I guess if I needed friends badly, I could rent them for any occasion, not just diving, but that'd be kind of pathetic, wouldn't it? My point is that I don't need this community you're talking about, where the dive shop owner trains me cheaply and dives with me in return for me paying extra for gear.

As for saving a buck or two, I am probably a little too free with my money, but I do resent it a little when others are free with it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

If you think LP is good for you and/or scuba in general..great. Again, more power to you. Do some training with them...go dive with the owners...etc...save a buck or two.

Peace.

There's a good point buried in that sentance. Dive shops aren't generally where I would recommend divers go for training. Given that training is such a loss leader, it isn't usually very good. Scratch that...most training offered by most shops that I know if is just plain lousy. Even so, I'd rather pay for training when I buy training. I want no part of paying for everybody elses training when I buy a reg.

If a dive shop owner wants to get paid for diving with people, they'll have to get paid by those they dive with. I'm not paying them.

 

[shoturtle]

There's a good point buried in that sentance. Dive shops aren't generally where I would recommend divers go for training. Given that training is such a loss leader, it isn't usually very good. Scratch that...most training offered by most shops that I know if is just plain lousy. Even so, I'd rather pay for training when I buy training. I want no part of paying for everybody elses training when I buy a reg.

If a dive shop owner wants to get paid for diving with people, they'll have to get paid by those they dive with. I'm not paying them.

There are some good shops with good instructors, but I have seen allot of shop just pass the student. They know that if they pass the student, that they will be able to set themselves up for a large sales of gear. I seen how their student prep on dive boats, there are some soup sandwiches on the boats and in the water. And they get cert after the 4th dive. And I am not saying that every lds shop does it, but it happens. The shops that make their money on boat diving and not gear seems to instruct better and are tougher. Like it was said earlier it is a lost for the shops, so some just go through the motion. So I went the route of private lesson with a instructor that thought without a shop affiliation. Just my opinion

 

[garyfotodiver]

As a complete aside - the recipe for coke is patented, and trademarked, which means that it is listed in full somewhere, correct?

Actually, it is a trade secret. If it was patented, the patent would have run out by now and the formula would be "in the public domain." Formulas are not trademarked; the symbols are. The Coke logo and designs, phrases like, "Things go better with Coke", etc.

Coca Cola is manufactured under Kosher supervision. The story goes that the rabbi in charge of the supervision knew the complete formula but he, unfortunately, died. Part of the supervision process is verifying that ALL the ingredients used are also Kosher. No red dye made from ants, for example.

A new rabbi was placed in charge by the supervision agency (not an employee of Coca Cola) and he couldn't get the complete formula. The supervision agency withdrew their approval until the formula was handed over.

This story may not be true, but it illustrates the lengths that a company will go in order to keep the trade secret.

 

[Leisure Pro Brett]

Hi Guys, Sorry it has taken me to the 19th page of this thread to chime in. The dive season is kicking into gear and I’ve been very busy lately trying to keep up. I’ve pulled a few comments to reply to, and if I missed something you would like me to comment on just let me know.

DiveSite
What I find interesting is there IS a person on this board that could put an end to any speculation about LeisurePro and where they get their Aqualung, or any other brand of equipment - Leisure Pro Brett. But he seems to be conspicuously quiet on this subject. No, I'm not an Aqualung dealer.

-Sorry, like I said, it’s been busy, believe me I don’t mind questions like this. The real problem I have is that I can’t really say where our gear comes from. The sources of our gear are what allow our business to run, and we need to ensure that they will be there in the future. For this reason I can’t say what they are. Matts1w has included part of a reply to him that goes a little more into this.


mike_s
Yes Brett could prob answer that.... but not fair to put him on the spot for something he most likely has no control over. LP is a big company and someone else makes those deals I bet.

But why should he answer that...

-It is very true that I have no control of where our gear comes from. We do have a number of full time buyers who do that. They spend all day, 5-6 days a week trying to keep our warehouse full of all the latest gear.

matts1w
On 12/10/2007 I wrote, "Maybe the new Leisure Pro rep on the board "Leisure Pro Brett" will fill us in on where they acquire their Scubapro and other unauthorized gear? Many of us would love to hear it."

Lp Brett answered:

"Hey Matt,

I wish I could fill you in, but our sources are something we cannot expose...I am more than happy to reply to you but unfortunately for you I cannot go about giving all our trade secrets to the competition just because they asked, you’ll have to be more clever than that. It’s like RC Cola calling Coke and asking for their recipe… they are never going to get it.... we deal with some manufacturers directly and with others we have to be more creative."

-Like I said above, If I missed something from the last 19 pages that you would like me to comment on just let me know.

Dive well,

 

[scubapro50]

Hi Guys, Sorry it has taken me to the 19th page of this thread to chime in. The dive season is kicking into gear and I’ve been very busy lately trying to keep up. I’ve pulled a few comments to reply to, and if I missed something you would like me to comment on just let me know.

DiveSite
What I find interesting is there IS a person on this board that could put an end to any speculation about LeisurePro and where they get their Aqualung, or any other brand of equipment - Leisure Pro Brett. But he seems to be conspicuously quiet on this subject. No, I'm not an Aqualung dealer.

-Sorry, like I said, it’s been busy, believe me I don’t mind questions like this. The real problem I have is that I can’t really say where our gear comes from. The sources of our gear are what allow our business to run, and we need to ensure that they will be there in the future. For this reason I can’t say what they are. Matts1w has included part of a reply to him that goes a little more into this.


mike_s
Yes Brett could prob answer that.... but not fair to put him on the spot for something he most likely has no control over. LP is a big company and someone else makes those deals I bet.

But why should he answer that...

-It is very true that I have no control of where our gear comes from. We do have a number of full time buyers who do that. They spend all day, 5-6 days a week trying to keep our warehouse full of all the latest gear.

matts1w
On 12/10/2007 I wrote, "Maybe the new Leisure Pro rep on the board "Leisure Pro Brett" will fill us in on where they acquire their Scubapro and other unauthorized gear? Many of us would love to hear it."

Lp Brett answered:

"Hey Matt,

I wish I could fill you in, but our sources are something we cannot expose...I am more than happy to reply to you but unfortunately for you I cannot go about giving all our trade secrets to the competition just because they asked, you’ll have to be more clever than that. It’s like RC Cola calling Coke and asking for their recipe… they are never going to get it.... we deal with some manufacturers directly and with others we have to be more creative."

-Like I said above, If I missed something from the last 19 pages that you would like me to comment on just let me know.

Dive well,

With over 30 years of expierence I would say LeisurePro gets their equipment from many sources (both foreign and domestic). To have them name names would be like asking a undercover cop to post his name and address on the internet as a informant. There are several ways LeisurePro could receive equipment : (1) they have "secret" aurthorized supplyers that sell gear to them a little at a time so not to run up a "RED FLAG" at Aqualung, (2) shops call LP and offer to sell inventory they haven't been able to move (3) LP shops "going out of business" sells when a shop is closing down and offers them a "lump sum" for remaining inventory (4) they have "foreign sells agents" that shop and deal directly manufactures overseas and thereby by past the aurthorized American distributor (5) some "major" scuba companies will sell to LP "off the books" to liquidate overstock of discontinued items ... they just won't admit it to keep their "authorized dealers" from getting upset. ........ Have I left anything out? .... I don't believe the "MOB" version that it just "fell off the truck" and they don't know who it belonged to ... do you ?

 

[mike_s]

come on guys.... getting LP to admit they get their gear direct in many cases is like getting Dubya to admit they were wrong about 'weapons of mass destruction'.

I think we can stick a fork in this one...