Aqualung and gray markets...FYI

[matts1w]

Yes Brett could prob answer that.... but not fair to put him on the spot for something he most likely has no control over. LP is a big company and someone else makes those deals I bet.

But why should he answer that...

I've noticed he has kept quiet in all these Aqualung discussions..... but can you blame him? people here would just trash him for any answer he gave about it.

On 12/10/2007 I wrote, "Maybe the new Leisure Pro rep on the board "Leisure Pro Brett" will fill us in on where they acquire their Scubapro and other unauthorized gear? Many of us would love to hear it."

Lp Brett answered:

"Hey Matt,

I wish I could fill you in, but our sources are something we cannot expose...I am more than happy to reply to you but unfortunately for you I cannot go about giving all our trade secrets to the competition just because they asked, you’ll have to be more clever than that. It’s like RC Cola calling Coke and asking for their recipe… they are never going to get it.... we deal with some manufacturers directly and with others we have to be more creative."
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Seems like they keep it a bigger secret than Woodward and Bernsetin guarded the identity of Deepthroat. Do you think they meet with AL reps and wayward shop owners in dark parking garages? I also love the connection to the "trade secrets" of Coca-Cola. At least the executives at Coke actually create a quality product, amazing ad campaigns, and give a little back to popular culture. Leisure Pro? What do they do? Not much for the diving world beyond offering a sketchy, shady way of selling unauthorized scuba gear out of the back of a "high tech truck." I guess some people like that...more power to you. That isnt the kind of creativity (to use LP Brett's term) that I want to be a part of.

Anyway, I guess I'm not "clever" enough to figure it all out, but I do think LP sucks. I dont shop at Wal-Mart either. And yes, I think it is odd I am praising Coca-cola.

 

[vladimir]

I also love the connection to the "trade secrets" of Coca-Cola. At least the executives at Coke actually create a quality product, amazing ad campaigns, and give a little back to popular culture. Leisure Pro? What do they do? Not much for the diving world beyond offering a sketchy, shady way of selling unauthorized scuba gear out of the back of a "high tech truck." I guess some people like that...more power to you. That isnt the kind of creativity (to use LP Brett's term) that I want to be a part of.

Anyway, I guess I'm not "clever" enough to figure it all out, but I do think LP sucks. I dont shop at Wal-Mart either. And yes, I think it is odd I am praising Coca-cola.

What Coke does is make a sizable contribution to obesity in America and elsewhere. What LP does, one could argue, is allow people who might not otherwise afford the sport of diving to participate. Not that I care about "the diving world"--just my own diving. And, needless to say, I hope, neither Coke nor LP aims to do anything more than turn a profit. The rest is incidental.

 

[matts1w]

Not that I care about "the diving world"--just my own diving.

Exactly my point.

 

[matts1w]

What LP does, one could argue, is allow people who might not otherwise afford the sport of diving to participate.

You could argue that, but there is plenty of quality scuba gear that is affordable and embraces internet sales by companies like LeisurePro. They are an authorized dealer for many brands. Nothing sketchy with that. Those people could still afford the sport w/o the shady unauthorized sales.

 

[DiveBZ]

As a complete aside - the recipe for coke is patented, and trademarked, which means that it is listed in full somewhere, correct?

And a FOIA request or public documents search through the patents office would reveal the entirety of the formula, no? You can't patent a recipe and not tell the patent office what the recipe is, otherwise how would they be able to determine if some other company was copying you?

RC Cola and Sam's Cola, and all those others are basically Coke with a few small changes to avoid a patent/TM infringement.

Anyways -

Sooner or later, something will have to give. If the economy continues the way it has been and people become more and more frugal, I imagine you will see less and less of the ridiculously high priced SCUBA gear being purchased.

This type of complicit distribution on the part of the big scuba companies is going to eventually make it extremely difficult to offer their products as an Authorized LDS.

Which, honestly, makes me wonder why LDS shops aren't setting up shell companies online to move volume items while honoring original warranties in the shop on those same items that were sold. This would allow them to sell at prices that are competitive while still providing the end user with the warranty and value adds, and at the same time, AL is none the wiser that the LDS is selling below the ridiculous price point limit nonsense.

If it were my LDS (which is probably why I will never own one) I would tell me customers straight up, I can sell this to you for (X) if you buy it off my website, and I'll deliver it in-store with full warranty and everything. You can save (X) dollars and still get the full benefit of buying from an authorized retailer.

Remember - behind every great fortune is a great crime.

It would seem that nailing an intuitive or smart LDS owner would be complete hypocrisy until the big companies stop silently endorsing the gray market.

 

[DiveBZ]

Which, honestly, makes me wonder why LDS shops aren't setting up shell companies online to move volume items while honoring original warranties in the shop on those same items that were sold. This would allow them to sell at prices that are competitive while still providing the end user with the warranty and value adds, and at the same time, AL is none the wiser that the LDS is selling below the ridiculous price point limit nonsense.

If it were my LDS (which is probably why I will never own one) I would tell me customers straight up, I can sell this to you for (X) if you buy it off my website, and I'll deliver it in-store with full warranty and everything. You can save (X) dollars and still get the full benefit of buying from an authorized retailer.

Remember - behind every great fortune is a great crime.

It would seem that nailing an intuitive or smart LDS owner would be complete hypocrisy until the big companies stop silently endorsing the gray market.

I also forgot -

Instruct said customer to put the MSRP on the warranty card so that it won't be noticed when sent in that the LDS was selling below price points.

Which by the way is another great little scheme they have worked up. An LDS owner trying to help someone out can get screwed when the warranty card goes in and one of the big companies notices the item was sold below the price point.

LDS gets caught due to honesty on the part of the diver they were trying to help.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I don't believe a dive shop looses any money by filling diver's tanks. I know the one I deal with does not.

First of all, the primary reason most shops even have a compressor is to fill the tanks they need to conduct the training side of their business and to qualify as an authorized dealer with most mfgrs. So filling tanks for training is why you have necessary insurance, technician training, and care & feeding of your compressor. Labor to fill the tanks is usually the same labor needed to run the shop and only with a very large operation that sells lots of fills would it have any effect on the number of employees. So sales of air to individuals is basically profit minus a little for care & feeding of the system.

Similarly, the primary reason most shops pump nitrox is to support their nitrox training and a similar logic train would follow.

Yes but the training is often just another loss-leader. You lose money on air fills so you can lose money on classes...all in the hopes of selling some "high margin" equipment...which isn't so "high-margin" because it needs to support the training and filling.

If a fill station is in an area where high volumes of gas can be sold, it can make money but many dive shops aren't in such an area. I know mine wasn't.

 

[vladimir]

Exactly my point.

Your point was that Vladimir doesn't care about "the diving world"? Wow, well, good point, I guess. How'd you know?

 

[matts1w]

Your point was that Vladimir doesn't care about "the diving world"? Wow, well, good point, I guess. How'd you know?

How did I know that there are people who dont care about a culture/community, only themsleves? Does not take much to figure that out.

 

[vladimir]

Oh, I should care that dive instructors aren't properly subsidized by overpriced gear? Is subsidy an integral part of our culture? Our community? You sound like I stamped out the Native Americans. Why doesn't anybody pay extra for their variance swaps and their credit default swaps? Aren't they concerned about my income? You are right, I'm not very communal; I'm more of a capitalist.