Aqualung and gray markets...FYI

[bfw]

I have not attacked anybody and I am not trying to make anybody do anything. (I think that would be you.)

No, that would be the OP and about half the other posters. Whenever this topic comes up, the anti-LP side is condemning and dictating that we support our LDS. Meanwhile, very few if any on the LP ever condemn those who shop the LDS.

I'm doing neither. My only concern is that people who need a lot of hand holding and assistance don't shop LP, because if enough of them demand LDS level service, LP will meet that demand, and raise prices to do it. I also don't believe in asking the LDS to match LP prices, because if that happens often enough, they'll have to cut services. There's enough business for both sides, and each side can serve those customers they serve best.

I don't care for your comments suggesting I don't know how to do what is best for my daughter.

If you're not used to that by now, you should be. Every parent hears it constantly these days. Our government, at various levels, makes a career out of telling parents that, and sometimes backing it up with draconian coersion. You don't have to agree with me, and, as far as I'm concerned, it's up to you how to raise your kids, but when you talk about it publicly, it's also everyone else's right to express their opinion about your practices. Honestly, if having a teenager hasn't thickened you skin enough to hear/read a little criticism, I don't know what else will.

While I use a BPW, I don't believe everybody else has to.

IF as you claim, that was a RATIONAL, OBJECTIVE, and NON-EMOTIONAL choice, THEN it would be your rational, objective belief that that is the optimum design, and the only rational position would be that everyone else should also use it. The only alternative is that either it wasn't a rational choice on your part, or you believe others should not make rational choices.

Am I saying you should be running around with a club beating other people into doing what you think is right? No, but that doesn't preclude you holding a position that they SHOULD, and when the individual in question is your child, who is both your responsibility and under your authority, and presumably you're paying the bills, then it's not only your right, but your responsibility to enforce the benefit of your more experienced, mature, and rational judgment. Otherwise, whatever is a parent for; just emancipate the kid and leave her to her own devices.

Call me crazy, but when fewer than 10% of American teens can't make it to high school graduation without messing up the simplest of decisions like whether or not to use recreational drugs, I don't understand why anyone would trust them to make intelligent decisions regarding something as nuanced as the optimal design for life support equipment. Maybe your kid's a prodigy, but her choice not to use a BPW militates against the presumption that she applied that potential to this particular decision.

 

[redacted]

You guys seem to have pretty much turned this thread into ---- something else not very useful. Why don't you consider deleting all this crap and focus on AL?

 

[cuddlefish]

As for Aqua Lung benefit of warranty via authorized dealers…I thought I’d throw this little tidbit out into the feeding frenzy. Personally, I’m feeling it is of questionable benefit.

My SeaQuest BC had some form of weakness in the corrugated inflator hose. At just under the warranty period, once inflated in the water, I guess with pressure, it became a 5cm split in the hose crevice.
So I got back out of the water took it home, rinsed and dried then 3 days later into the authorized dealer I purchased it from for warranty covered repair. Or so I blithely thought.

The shop seemed concerned about the repair cost to me. I said it’s under warranty. This required my proving it, ok I said. Why they couldn’t just look it up…whatever. In the meantime fix it so I can dive and I’ll bring in my receipt. Ok, they said, before we do the repair we’ll call you with an estimate. It’s under warranty I said (for the 4th time now.) There was some head shaking and; I don’t think so. Very weird I thought. (Ok you just think I’m wrong about when I boutht it.) Just get it fixed ASAP and I’ll bring in the receipt. The call before fix with estimate was again repeated.

Getting nowhere then, I went home and got my receipt, looked in the manual as well as online and as best as I could tell, yes, this was a warranty covered issue. Brought the stuff into the shop asking; was it fixed yet? No, we don’t do repairs without confirmation you will accept the cost. We didn’t know if you wanted it fixed. (Gee I left it here because….what?)
Some unhappy examination of my receipt. What’s the problem? Oh nothing; and returned to unhappy examination. Several more repetitions of the previous it’s under warranty discussion later, with still no reply for why on earth they think it’s not, I gave up. How much could replacing the hose cost? Just fix the damn thing and I’ll sort it out later. This is a good company, shouldn’t be much of a problem, right?
I wrote something about covered under warranty on the work order. More head shaking, a lot of very troubled looks amongst those discussing in low voices out of my hearing.

Finally I’m called; did I decide if I want them to fix it? (My brain screams; WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM!!!! Take a deep breath….)Yes please I answer. You know it is not covered under warranty and will cost…$? It is covered. No it’s not. Why not? I don’t know, I just don’t think so. Why? I just don’t think so. (This is just the weirdest damn thing is all I can think.) I managed to not yell; just fix it, and squeaked out please.

Rooted around a bit and found the nearest rep, explained the situation. Oh, he said, I don’t think that’s covered.
Why?
I don’t know, you’ll have to ask the company.
Hello? What on earth is being a rep mean to you?
This hasn’t come up before.
Then how come you think it’s not covered?
I’ve just heard about it.
Then it has come up.
Not for me.
Would you like to know more about the company you represent and find out?
That would be a good idea.
So you’re going to find out and call me back?
Oh. Well…....(long pause)
It seems quite reasonable to me. Can you please explain what I’m not getting about this?
I don’t know. You’ll have to contact the company.
How do I do that, who do I speak to?
I don’t know.
Any suggestions?
No.
I gave up.

My calling the company got just as no where. I spoke to a couple of people on the phone and got nearly identical answers – I think there was a prepared script for just this situation. The last person thought because I was not using the same brand inflator it voided the warranty for the BC, but they only heard that and didn’t know for sure. (I can show you the tag on it saying X$ without inflator. First I heard that when purchasing without that inflator I may be hosed when some other part fails…..)

So, the last word was I had to write for an answer. No one able to be connected to or reached by phone would be able to tell me if my repair was covered, and no one was willing to say more than they thought it was not, or anything about not buying their inflator.

I wrote by USPS Certified and got a received card back but no reply. Also e-mailed a detailed account from purchase, that did get a response. Basically saying; if you have questions regarding your product please provide a detailed explination of the problem or contact your local authorized dealer. The nearest is: who I bought it from or representative: the idiot who had no clue.

Now several weeks later, finally the BC seemed to have been repaired, but there was some problem with payment (I had not heard anything from the company yet.) The shop fellow left the BC in my hand next to an open garage size door and went to see if he could solve it. Such was my frustration by now, I seriously considered just walking out to my car parked next to the door, BC in hand. But, feeling sorry for the fellow (I’d not seen there before) and I was a loyal customer – nearly all my gear had been purchased there - I waited. Reassuring myself, somehow I had just fallen thru numerous cracks in the customer service plan and all would be resolved shortly. Finally he came back, had no answer for the paperwork problem, unable to reach anyone to ask, and was alone in the shop; what did I want to do?

I gave up, I wanted to dive, paid for the repair and figured the company was eventually going to set the situation straight. Ha! No, never heard a thing back again from them.

Wow, sorry you had to go through so much with this situation. Is it possible that hoses are not covered under warranty unless it is a proven manufacture defect? Hoses do split for various reasons. That might be considered wear and tear...even if you haven't had the BC for very long. I'm not saying that's what happened....I'm just trying to think of what would make the situation not covered under warranty. It is not uncommon for things like hose splits to be considered wear and tear and therefore not covered. I know, for example, that if the material is "fraying"...it is not covered unless the BC has just been removed from its original packaging for the first time. You'd think that if it frayed after a couple of uses that it would be covered...but it's not.

 

[Splitlip]

You guys seem to have pretty much turned this thread into ---- something else not very useful. Why don't you consider deleting all this crap and focus on AL?

AquaLung~on line sales~Leisure Pro~LDS~ BPW v. Jackets~child abuse

You are right awap, :smileysto I am done.

 

[redrover]

My primary point in posting is; all I spoke with concerning the issue were either unable and/or unwilling to answer simple questions falling under this thread of Authorized Dealer Warranty is a benefit vs. purchasing elsewhere.

• What exactly is the value of this all important manufacturer benefits regarding Warranty if failure is not covered?
• Documentation supports Factory installed and included with original (new) purchase of manufacturers product. Is the hose included in warranty?
• Manufacturer Customer Service, Manufacturer Rep and Authorized Dealer all familiar with the issue yet uneducated regarding the answer. Why on earth are they, and, unwilling to learn not only for myself but for the future?

Wear and tear?
The warranty period is my expectation of the manufacturers expectation of the time a product is able to withstand wear and tear with an average of usage. In my experience it is more common with any warranty period to far outlast it, next is shortly after, and rare within.
Presumably the components were planned for and expected to last on average no longer than two years. If my usage fell within the warranty period, it would seem they had factored in the percentage of and most likely charged the ticket price accordingly to absorb the cost.
I do expect a company of this size, within this industry, to absorb this type of component failure, really without question. If they wished to question it, the component was (and is) available in its replaced condition. Aqua Lung certainly had no interest in examining it for wear and tear or component failure.

The BC was within the warranty period, barely, with proof, and certainly not exposed to rigorous wear and tear. Except for scratches on the integrated weight pull handles looks brand new (which is commendable.)
If the failure point was exposed to any wear and tear it is a design flaw, unless the objective of making a hose bendable is to not be able to bend to some degree with out excessive force. Presumably persons purchasing a product specifically for Ladies would not be expected to have the ability to use excessive force.

The only bending of this hose happens to dump at the surface on rare occasions. I pull the shoulder dump primarily and unable to pull the hose sufficiently with my hands to view the split. To protect the inflator it is carefully tucked in natural (hanging down) position inside the BC. If over use or general wear and tear was an issue it would be at the butt dump, a zipper or Velcro. I do not consider fraying of material a failure, requiring repair or resulting in it being out of commission.

I had read here of Manufactures unwilling to support their products and did look at the split in the hose wondering, if they were questionable in practice; would it appear I’d cut it? The split had noticeable thinning of plastic and clearly ragged edges.


In summation (my opinion based on experience);

• Aqua Lung is unwilling to say yes or no when asked if a repair or replacement is covered under warranty after purchase. I would not have been happy if it was not but it is unfathomable and inexcusable why I could not get a yes or no, let alone why.
• It is not to be expected Aqua Lung interprets the consumers definition of the word warranty the same.
• Aqua Lung is misrepresenting the value of their warranty to the consumer.
• Aqua Lung’s business practice and ethics are seriously questionable.
• Aqua Lung customer service sucks, big time.
• I’m disinclined to consider purchasing an Aqua Lung product again in support of not only my LDS but any top dollar seller. What is the point of paying a higher price for something that does not exist?

 

[cuddlefish]

My primary point in posting is; all I spoke with concerning the issue were either unable and/or unwilling to answer simple questions falling under this thread of Authorized Dealer Warranty is a benefit vs. purchasing elsewhere.

• What exactly is the value of this all important manufacturer benefits regarding Warranty if failure is not covered?
• Documentation supports Factory installed and included with original (new) purchase of manufacturers product. Is the hose included in warranty?
• Manufacturer Customer Service, Manufacturer Rep and Authorized Dealer all familiar with the issue yet uneducated regarding the answer. Why on earth are they, and, unwilling to learn not only for myself but for the future?

Wear and tear?
The warranty period is my expectation of the manufacturers expectation of the time a product is able to withstand wear and tear with an average of usage. In my experience it is more common with any warranty period to far outlast it, next is shortly after, and rare within.
Presumably the components were planned for and expected to last on average no longer than two years. If my usage fell within the warranty period, it would seem they had factored in the percentage of and most likely charged the ticket price accordingly to absorb the cost.
I do expect a company of this size, within this industry, to absorb this type of component failure, really without question. If they wished to question it, the component was (and is) available in its replaced condition. Aqua Lung certainly had no interest in examining it for wear and tear or component failure.

The BC was within the warranty period, barely, with proof, and certainly not exposed to rigorous wear and tear. Except for scratches on the integrated weight pull handles looks brand new (which is commendable.)
If the failure point was exposed to any wear and tear it is a design flaw, unless the objective of making a hose bendable is to not be able to bend to some degree with out excessive force. Presumably persons purchasing a product specifically for Ladies would not be expected to have the ability to use excessive force.

The only bending of this hose happens to dump at the surface on rare occasions. I pull the shoulder dump primarily and unable to pull the hose sufficiently with my hands to view the split. To protect the inflator it is carefully tucked in natural (hanging down) position inside the BC. If over use or general wear and tear was an issue it would be at the butt dump, a zipper or Velcro. I do not consider fraying of material a failure, requiring repair or resulting in it being out of commission.

I had read here of Manufactures unwilling to support their products and did look at the split in the hose wondering, if they were questionable in practice; would it appear I’d cut it? The split had noticeable thinning of plastic and clearly ragged edges.


In summation (my opinion based on experience);

• Aqua Lung is unwilling to say yes or no when asked if a repair or replacement is covered under warranty after purchase. I would not have been happy if it was not but it is unfathomable and inexcusable why I could not get a yes or no, let alone why.
• It is not to be expected Aqua Lung interprets the consumers definition of the word warranty the same.
• Aqua Lung is misrepresenting the value of their warranty to the consumer.
• Aqua Lung’s business practice and ethics are seriously questionable.
• Aqua Lung customer service sucks, big time.
• I’m disinclined to consider purchasing an Aqua Lung product again in support of not only my LDS but any top dollar seller. What is the point of paying a higher price for something that does not exist?

It sounds like the hose should have been replaced! I have no idea why Aqualung responded that way. I have been a firm supporter of Aqua Lung and Sea Quest for years. This is puzzling.

 

[RiverRat]

LOL I bought a "grey" ATX200 years ago. Who needs a stinkin' warranty anyway? I can get all my parts online and I'm set with this regulator until I quit diving.... well maybe...
I got no worries I know how to get around price fixing. More money for dives

 

[bfw]

You guys seem to have pretty much turned this thread into ---- something else not very useful. Why don't you consider deleting all this crap and focus on AL?

The AL/LP content has been maintained throughout the exchange. Read more carefully.

 

[bfw]

• Aqua Lung is unwilling to say yes or no when asked if a repair or replacement is covered under warranty after purchase. I would not have been happy if it was not but it is unfathomable and inexcusable why I could not get a yes or no, let alone why.
• It is not to be expected Aqua Lung interprets the consumers definition of the word warranty the same.
• Aqua Lung is misrepresenting the value of their warranty to the consumer.
• Aqua Lung’s business practice and ethics are seriously questionable.

Outside of industries like the auto industry, where warranties are time and usage based, and there are lots of legislated remedies, warranties are largely lip service.
It's more trouble than its worth to obtain the benefits of a warranty because there really aren't adequate formal mechanisms for honoring it. That's why, as some here related, the stand up companies just exchange defective products for new - so few people actually pursue warranty claims that it's more cost effective than setting up an effective warranty service system. The rest just figure that, in the few cases where someone does assert a warranty claim, they can stonewall and most people will eventually give up, and the worst that will happen is they won't sell that individual any more gear.

 

[rawls]

You guys seem to have pretty much turned this thread into ---- something else not very useful.

Agreed....and apologies.....