Aqualung and gray markets...FYI

[fireflock]

I think the warranty issue is a loser for the dive business as time goes on. I very rarely buy anything in the non-diving world that I think I will need warranty status for. I'd rather save the money upfront and fix it myself, pay someone else to fix it, or take the loss if something happens.

There are a few exceptions, like maybe drysuits, a high dollar HID, or a top end scooter, but I feel the same way about most dive gear.

I think most people in their 30's and younger feel the same way. I'm pleasantly shocked when I can find someone to stand behind something they sell or service, but I'm used to customer no-service that is now the norm. I don't lament the demise of warranty service, I just adjust the way I buy to account for the fact that I'm on my own once I've paid for it. It's such as pain to get any help after the sale, we just don't try anymore.

Almost anyone can tell you a story about the one time when a warranty really saved them. I figure that over time I'm better off choosing reliable products, paying less upfront and taking my chances. My guess is that the next generation of dive consumers will have been trained (by poor service everywhere else) to feel the same way.

 

[mike_s]

As for Aqua Lung benefit of warranty via authorized dealers…I thought I’d throw this little tidbit out into the feeding frenzy. Personally, I’m feeling it is of questionable benefit.

My SeaQuest BC had some form of weakness in the corrugated inflator hose. At just under the warranty period, once inflated in the water, I guess with pressure, it became a 5cm split in the hose crevice.


[snip]

.

Wasn't there a recall on the Aqualung hoses a while back?


anyway, for whoever asked for the link to the original poster as to where this was on the AL website in reference to not selling to LP, here ya go Leisure Pro is NOT an authorized Aqua Lung dealer

 

[jpsexton]

anyway, for whoever asked for the link to the original poster as to where this was on the AL website in reference to not selling to LP, here ya go Leisure Pro is NOT an authorized Aqua Lung dealer

Ya know whats interesting? After I clicked on this link to read it from their site myself, I hopped over to LeisurePro's site to compare the benefits of buying from an "authorized dealer". After reading Return Policy | LeisurePro.com and Warranty Policy | LeisurePro.com you realize that by purchasing from LeisurePro you get the same warranty terms but a much more liberal return policy.

Just more proof that an educated consumer can see through all of this "authorized dealer" baloney.

 

[Splitlip]

I did. Did not like is an emotional response. I can't begin to count the number of people I know who drive without wearing seatbelts because they "don't like them."

In my view, as a parent, your job is to provide what you OBJECTIVELY see as the optimal configuration, not cater to what she likes. My parents didn't ask if I liked vegetables, they just told me to eat them.

I'm not telling you what to do - I'll defend to the death your right to parent as you wish, whether I agree with it or not, but that doesn't mean you won't hear my opinion if I disagree.



Either everyone should, or they shouldn't. It's either optimal or it's not. Your statement implies it's merely a matter of personal preference, which is essentially decision by emotion.



That's human folly at work. I'm not addressing what's typical, but rather, what's optimal. It took quite a while for me to see it as optimal, during which time, I "didn't like it," sort of like the way I choked down a ton of broccoli before I realized it's really pretty good.



No, it's not, at least the way you relate it. If you don't like it, especially at first, it may be that the problem is not the equipment, but the diver. Your approach, by rejecting it because it's "not liked" arbitrarily assumes the problem must be the equipment, in complete disregard for whether it's functionally optimal or not.



And your point is? You seem to think I'd condemn them for that. Why? I simply rebutted the contention that handling the merchandise and other services of the LDS automatically trump internet price savings. I never said they had no value. In fact, I specifically said that if you need such services, or even prefer them, you should buy where you get them and be prepared to pay the piper.

You're funny!

You so want to prove some point (I am not sure what), now you are suggesting I force feed my kid a BPW like you were force fed veggies.

All the while parsing my posts and suggesting I did something wrong by allowing my kid to try different BCD's to find the one she (and I preferred). My choices are not emotional. Rather very objective. She does not NEED a BPW nor does she like them.

I am quite happy that the local shops give me an opportunity to try before I buy. You seem to have a problem with that.

I wonder, is bfw the only screen name you use here?

I don't know who the piper is. As I have said before, the shops I deal with beat LP and any on line site. Sometimes with MFG's like SP and AL, it is a little harder as I said. Gas fills and boat trips instead of discount. Or as another example. I bought a pair of Jetfins from an authorized dealer. I paid the Scubapro price, but they gave me Manta spring straps for nothing. Package was less than LP.

Otherwise, when I bought my OMS wing, my Zeagle Stiletto, one of my cameras, a Mares reg and 2 of my computers, they just beat LP for me. Period.

Now admittedly, I have built a relationship with these folks over the years. Guess because I am emotional and needed the security.

 

[ScubaSarus]

After reading the AL statement, it appears my definition of scalping is occuring. Thats were an authorized dealer is buying from AL then turning around and selling to LP for a smaller profit than usual under the recommended price and in large volume to make up for the lower price. This happened with beanie babies and lots of other items.

I assume this because AL mentions that they have cut sellers off in the past.

 

[mike_s]

After reading the AL statement, it appears my definition of scalping is occuring. Thats were an authorized dealer is buying from AL then turning around and selling to LP for a smaller profit than usual under the recommended price and in large volume to make up for the lower price. This happened with beanie babies and lots of other items.

I assume this because AL mentions that they have cut sellers off in the past.

Youre missing it. Their statement is bogus. AL is selling product direct to LP.

It might have someone elses name on the invoice, some 'shaddow company', but AL knows where the product is going. You don't have that much 'grey market' sold without knowing, and profiting, from it.

They only cut off dealers who won't "play their game" on other issues, such as price control. They even let that slide also.... It's just like at work, if they really wanted to find a reason to get rid of an employee, they can.


Don't believe that bogus statement they posted. It's just window dressing for the LDS's that are drinking the AL KoolAid.

 

[rawls]

Your classes are affordable, and hence marketable, because of the markup the LDS makes on equipment.

The manager at the dive shop where I teach called me today about a class scheduled in a couple of weeks. I asked him about how much our gear sales supplemented the cost of the classes. He told me the classes made money in and of themselves. We certify between 100-200 students a season and I was surprised at how much they actually made on classes alone. Ended up finding out the classes in and of themselves are actually pretty substantial profit centers, some of which income goes to supplementing the charters to allow them to keep charter prices as low as they can. They did not raise charter prices last year, but definitely raised them this year...a whopping $6.00. There are 3 of us who teach and we barely make enough to pay for our insurance which helps substantially to keep the classes affordable. But we each have well paying jobs and basically do it because we enjoy teaching...We do get perks like no charges for charters and a few extra dollars for guiding dives.

You could have posted a link

If I had posted the link and you had clicked on it, what would you have seen? And I would still be getting the same level of "linguistic sophistication" as I am getting from you now.

hey, this guy just parroted something he saw online, with no judgment of his own playing a role, and with no understanding of how it would come across, which seems to conform to your current claim, in my view, would be to call you a fool.

How does this make someone a fool. It is done all of the time. People post things they feel may be of interest to others on this board without any agenda in mind. With no judgement of his own playing a role...It is not a requirement to have a specific judgement if one simply wants to post something that he or she feels may be of interest.

The only other possibility is that your nothing but a troll trying to stir up controversy.

If you believe that statement as a possibility, I ask you to look back at any of the threads I have ever started, which are few, or replies I have made, to find other examples where I have tried to stir up controversy.

I wonder, is bfw the only screen name you use here?

Perhaps not, but he does sound a bit familiar doesn't he....

 

[bfw]

now you are suggesting I force feed my kid a BPW

No, you seem to have a problem reading for comprehension. I suggested that you decide objectively what is the optimum and have your kid use it.

What if your kid didn't LIKE SPG's, or having an octo? Would you go along?

All the while parsing my posts and suggesting I did something wrong by allowing my kid to try different BCD's to find the one she (and I preferred).

Again, read the words. I suggested it was wrong to leave life support equipment choices to the emotional whims of an adolescent. As far as having her try several different ones, if one is optimal, there's no need to try the others.

My choices are not emotional. Rather very objective.

So YOU objectively decided a BPW was optimal and use one, but when your kid's life is on the line, you leave the selection to her adolescent whim. Because, hey, teenagers have STERLING decision mechanisms, right?

She does not NEED a BPW nor does she like them.

She NEEDS the optimum design when it comes to life support equipment, and by your own claim, you objectively designated that as a BPW.

I am quite happy that the local shops give me an opportunity to try before I buy. You seem to have a problem with that.[./quote]

I have no problem with them doing so, and I made that clear. I even said I believe it morally obligates you to buy from them. The only thing I took issue with is the priority and value you place on that opportunity, as it's based on a fallacy.

I don't know who the piper is.

I'm not surprised, given how carelessly you've been reading. The piper is the LDS that gave you the service, a service I find of little value (hence I'd readily shop LP) but one for which you should be prepared to pay, since you value it. Everyone should shop the vendor who provides the level of service they value, and pay for that service in the vendor's markup. Don't attack LP, and try to make those who don't value the service pay for it, and if you do value the service, then don't shop LP and expect your LDS to support the sale for free.

it's simple - free trade, free enterprise. Shop where you want, but pay for the service you get. Don't expect the LDS to offer no service online prices, and don't expect the online place to offer LDS service. Know your needs and go where they're met, and pay appropriately. That's the economic issue.

As for your daughter's BCD, that'a s separate issue as to the value of a given level of service.

 

[bfw]

If I had posted the link and you had clicked on it, what would you have seen?

A guy saying, hey, check out what these folks said, rather than repeating their words in total, which implies approval.

 

[Splitlip]

No, you seem to have a problem reading for comprehension. I suggested that you decide objectively what is the optimum and have your kid use it.

What if your kid didn't LIKE SPG's, or having an octo? Would you go along?



Again, read the words. I suggested it was wrong to leave life support equipment choices to the emotional whims of an adolescent. As far as having her try several different ones, if one is optimal, there's no need to try the others.



So YOU objectively decided a BPW was optimal and use one, but when your kid's life is on the line, you leave the selection to her adolescent whim. Because, hey, teenagers have STERLING decision mechanisms, right?



She NEEDS the optimum design when it comes to life support equipment, and by your own claim, you objectively designated that as a BPW.

I am quite happy that the local shops give me an opportunity to try before I buy. You seem to have a problem with that.[./quote]

I have no problem with them doing so, and I made that clear. I even said I believe it morally obligates you to buy from them. The only thing I took issue with is the priority and value you place on that opportunity, as it's based on a fallacy.



I'm not surprised, given how carelessly you've been reading. The piper is the LDS that gave you the service, a service I find of little value (hence I'd readily shop LP) but one for which you should be prepared to pay, since you value it. Everyone should shop the vendor who provides the level of service they value, and pay for that service in the vendor's markup. Don't attack LP, and try to make those who don't value the service pay for it, and if you do value the service, then don't shop LP and expect your LDS to support the sale for free.

it's simple - free trade, free enterprise. Shop where you want, but pay for the service you get. Don't expect the LDS to offer no service online prices, and don't expect the online place to offer LDS service. Know your needs and go where they're met, and pay appropriately. That's the economic issue.

As for your daughter's BCD, that'a s separate issue as to the value of a given level of service.

You ARE funny, "bfw".
You are so focused on your agenda, you fail to recognize a bit of sarcasm regarding my "paying the piper" comment.

I have not attacked anybody and I am not trying to make anybody do anything. (I think that would be you.)

While I enjoy having a little fun with you, I don't care for your comments suggesting I don't know how to do what is best for my daughter.

While I use a BPW, I don't believe everybody else has to.

Please feel free to parse away "bfw". I have neither the time nor the motivation to waste too much energy playing, but I will check back later.