Apeks WSX-25/45? Versus xDeep and/or Katana?

[stuartv]

More info about my "other" factors:

I have just become a staff Divemaster for my local shop. Currently, I have an SDI (sport) DM card. I am still in training to get a TDI (tech) DM card. So, I can get whatever rig at want at dealer cost. They carry Apeks, Hollis, Dive Rite, ScubaPro, Aqualung, and others that I can't think of right now. But, I don't know that they carry xDeep. I don't think they really CARE if I were to buy something they don't carry. But, having some loyalty to them, I would rather buy something they carry unless there is a REALLY strong reason to go outside the fold.

My main use for my SM rig will be in my local quarry, helping with tech classes. Thus working on getting my TDI DM card. My tech instructor is accepting tech students who dive in SM. When he has SM students, he dives in SM. When I am helping with a class, and there are SM students, I want to be able to match them.

My secondary (very minor) use will be the possibility that I will fly to dive somewhere. Instead of carrying my SS BP/W rig, I might choose to start carrying a SM rig instead. So, having a rig like the Apeks or xDeep where I could, in the future, get a smaller wing to take on those kind of trips would be kind of nice. I think. Is it likely that I'll find that, like my BP/W rigs, I will end up wanting to have completely separate, dedicated SM rigs for warm water versus cold water? My thinking was that an Apeks or xDeep rig setup for cold water and steels would still work fine with a smaller wing, in warm water with AL80s - only requiring some tweaking to D-ring positions and maybe tweaking to the bungees, to switch back and forth. Is that a pipe dream? What if it were warm water, but I were still able to source steel 100s to use?

 

[stuartv]

As somewhat of an aside, I know that some people really do not favor adding a weight to an AL80 in SM diving.

But, I can't but wonder, if you have a SM rig that is setup for diving steels that are 0.5# negative when empty, and you add a 5# weight to an AL80, so that it will be 0.5# negative when it's empty, could you not then use pretty much the exact same rig to dive either one, without any adjustments?

And the downside(s) would be?? Only that issue of having a weight on the 80 that could snag on something or fall out of its pocket?

I don't see myself using AL80s as my main tanks for any technical diving. I only envision using them for warm water, non-technical dives. So, it doesn't seem like adding a weight to each tank would be a big deal, for the dives I would see myself doing.

 

[Doby45]

As somewhat of an aside, I know that some people really do not favor adding a weight to an AL80 in SM diving.

But, I can't but wonder, if you have a SM rig that is setup for diving steels that are 0.5# negative when empty, and you add a 5# weight to an AL80, so that it will be 0.5# negative when it's empty, could you not then use pretty much the exact same rig to dive either one, without any adjustments?

And the downside(s) would be?? Only that issue of having a weight on the 80 that could snag on something or fall out of its pocket?

I don't see myself using AL80s as my main tanks for any technical diving. I only envision using them for warm water, non-technical dives. So, it doesn't seem like adding a weight to each tank would be a big deal, for the dives I would see myself doing.

I did exactly that for my AL80s to practice prior to getting my steels and it worked flawlessly. As I have a brazillian pounds of lead for casting boolits, I simply cast two 5lb discs to fit in the bottom of the tank boots and they worked great.

 

[DevonDiver]

Andy, I'm particularly surprised that you discounted the Apeks because it was your somewhat glowing review....

Was for the WSX-25... which could get away with being a basic triangle wing without innovation.

I was disappointed with the WSX-45.

It needed more design effort than just to massively enlarge the proportions to increase wing volume from 25 to 45.

The issue facing English/Mexican Cave style rigs has ALWAYS been how to deliver high end buoyancy needs without creating a horrific 'beach ball' effect.

XDeep have innovated towards that goal.... and it pays off.

Apeks just didn't seem to care...

 

[runsongas]

if you add some sliding drings or some extra drings for moving the tank as it gets more positive, you don't need to put weights on the tanks to use the same harness with both steel and aluminum tanks.

 

[stuartv]

Was for the WSX-25... which could get away with being a basic triangle wing without innovation.

I was disappointed with the WSX-45.

It needed more design effort than just to massively enlarge the proportions to increase wing volume from 25 to 45.

The issue facing English/Mexican Cave style rigs has ALWAYS been how to deliver high end buoyancy needs without creating a horrific 'beach ball' effect.

XDeep have innovated towards that goal.... and it pays off.

Apeks just didn't seem to care...

To my untrained eye, the Apeks 45 and the Tec wing look they are roughly the same shape and have roughly the same attachment points for keeping it pulled in and tight. You're saying in reality the Apeks one ends up having way more beach ball effect than the xDeep Tec?

Are there any cheap/simple mods that one could do to the Apeks wing to reign in the beach ball effect?

When I stop by my shop I am definitely going to ask them about if they can get the xDeep.

 

[Patoux01]

And the downside(s) would be?? Only that issue of having a weight on the 80 that could snag on something or fall out of its pocket?

Oh sigh. Here we go again.
-Maybe the fact that an Al80 is already 30#, so adding 5 on top of that makes it extra-easy to handle on land;
-Maybe it's the fact you won't be able to swing it forward should you ever want to (and not necessarily need, sometimes diving is just fun);
-Maybe because you lose all the comfort from aluminium tanks by doing that;
-Maybe there's even many other reasons.

But yeah, surely there's only a snagging point (which would easily be fixed by using a lead sheet and not a weight).


By the way, I don't know what your shop thinks of you using sidemount, but I do hope I know what they think of you DM-ing using ****mount. So the question is: who you gonna train with?

 

[runsongas]

To my untrained eye, the Apeks 45 and the Tec wing look they are roughly the same shape and have roughly the same attachment points for keeping it pulled in and tight. You're saying in reality the Apeks one ends up having way more beach ball effect than the xDeep Tec?

Are there any cheap/simple mods that one could do to the Apeks wing to reign in the beach ball effect?

When I stop by my shop I am definitely going to ask them about if they can get the xDeep.

i have only demoed the xdeep once, but i remember the outer shell giving it a sort of turtle shell effect. i can try to get a picture of my wsx45 inflated when i get home.

 

[stuartv]

Oh sigh. Here we go again.
-Maybe the fact that an Al80 is already 30#, so adding 5 on top of that makes it extra-easy to handle on land;
-Maybe it's the fact you won't be able to swing it forward should you ever want to (and not necessarily need, sometimes diving is just fun);
-Maybe because you lose all the comfort from aluminium tanks by doing that;
-Maybe there's even many other reasons.

But yeah, surely there's only a snagging point (which would easily be fixed by using a lead sheet and not a weight).


By the way, I don't know what your shop thinks of you using sidemount, but I do hope I know what they think of you DM-ing using ****mount. So the question is: who you gonna train with?

I didn't ask for answers with an extra helping of snark. I've been pretty clear (I think) that I have no practical experience. I'm just trying to learn.

What I got from your post is that there is no good way to dive a SM rig setup for steel 100s and then use AL80s occasionally, for fun, non-technical dives. The only reasonable way to SM AL80s would be to have a different rig or make significant changes to the rig's setup. Thank you for your opinion.

 

[Patoux01]

Well no, I reckon the stealth could. Just not how you suggested.