AOW student looking to take tech route- wondering how i can get the edge.

[Sas]

Not all agencies specifically forbid it though. And i think its a good way of training. At this level the training should stress you as much as possible to improve your problem solving under stress and your way of prioritising issues. A card with "now give me your mask" or "You are now out of gas" isnt the same as suddenly having your mask vanish or trying to breathe in and getting nothing.

This is true though I would say that it should happen earlier in training. As I don't see what the big deal is with ripping student's masks off? I had heaps of trouble with that skill in OW class so my instructor was constantly pulling it off my face unexpectedly so I would get over it. Really glad he did as it got me over worrying about my mask coming off. When someone's mask is kicked/knocked off u/w it is rarely expected so I think instructors should do more things like this to stress out students from OW classes onwards. And if people can't handle losing their mask unexpectedly at that level well then it is a good indication that they should just not dive all together...

 

[nereas]

It is quite sufficient for tech students simply to remove their own masks, and replace them. This skill is practiced on almost every tech dive, in most agencies. It is also one of the skills that I like to perform on my own, at some point during each of my dives, including valve drills.

It is simply inappropriate for psychotic instroketors to go around ripping off other people's masks.

And this is a good question to ask of potential tech instructors, as well.

"Do you rip off masks from your students?"

Hopefully the O/P will get the message.

 

[Sas]

It is simply inappropriate for psychotic instroketors to go around ripping off other people's masks.

Why is it inappropriate to rip off people's masks during training? What is your reasoning for thinking that?

 

[nereas]

Nereas, your posts are somewhat like a Karl Rovian approach to a candidate's weakness: keep saying it is a strength, and it will come become one in people's minds.

Everyone else, you are operating from a false premise, i.e., an instructor removing a mask from a student in a tech class is bad. What are we? A bunch of softies? Tech instructors coddling their students so they can be sure to get a card?

I recently read a tech class report where an instructor held up a CARD saying "LIGHT FAILURE!!!!" OH GOD!!!

The student responded by pointing their light backward (while still keeping it on) and deploying their backup light.

This has no basis in reality. It is silly.

Tech training, in my newbie tech diver opinion, needs to simulate reality as much as it can in a safe manner. Masks come off. If you can't handle that without keeping control of your buoyancy, then you shouldn't be tech diving. If an instructor can expose you to such an item in a controlled environment, with no deco obligation, then that is much better than having a "oh crap" moment as your buddy kicks your mask off and your lose control of your buoyancy.

And, further, this is basic stuff. Really not a big deal. So I don't get your opposition to that happening in a tech class.

It is fascinating to ponder what some people think is appropriate.

People who have had their masks ripped off seem to think it is appropriate.

Just as abused children when they grow up seem to think that child abuse is ok too, and thus the cycle of abuse continues.

The point of asking a potential instructor what he/she thinks is to find out about them.

If I were the O/P who originally asked the question, I would definitely find out of any of the instructors you are talking to rip off masks. And if they do, my advice would be to avoid them.

 

[Sas]

It is fascinating to ponder what some people think is appropriate.

People who have had their masks ripped off seem to think it is appropriate.

Just as abused children when they grow up seem to think that child abuse is ok too, and thus the cycle of abuse continues.

The point of asking a potential instructor what he/she thinks is to find out about them.

If I were the O/P who originally asked the question, I would definitely find out of any of the instructors you are talking to rip off masks. And if they do, my advice would be to avoid them.

Why is it inappropriate though? People have given reasons why they think it is appropriate, sensible reasons IMO (as it is better to have stressful situations - not that a mask removal should be unduly stressful - under care of an instructor to help you prepare for situations where you are on your own). I really do not understand why losing a mask is stressful, whether it is deliberately pulled off or comes off accidentally...

 

[nereas]

Keep your face away from other people's fins, and your mask will not get knocked off, Sassy.

 

[String]

Or dont go anywhere near wrecks, caves, caverns, overhangs or areas with current that might cause an impact.

Again brutal truth is if you can't deal with having a mask removed unexpectedly (or air stopping or anything else) you have absolutely no business being in the water without direct supervision as its a sign your basic skills are not up to a standard that is actually safe.

When choosing any sort of technical course you want an instructor that'll push you to your absolute limit - way beyond your perceived comfort zone. You want one who will task load and stress you throughout the training so you develop the mental attitude and confidence needed to deal with problems underwater whilst still keeping track of the dive run times, depths and so on. If you can keep your head and work logically through 1 or 2 simultaneous failures whilst still managing the deco and everything else you're in good shape. If the instructor never pushes you to that then you have no idea if you can cope with that and would have no experience of ever having to when a real incident arrives.

If you emerge from any technical diving type class having not been pushed and feeling as if you've had a good workout the course or instructor was rubbish and has failed you. SCUBA at a basic level is incredibly simple - pretty much anyone can shove some air in a wing and swim around. The real skill and difficulty comes with sorting out what happens when things DONT go right which is why at this level courses should stress you a lot to get you working in those situations.

 

[Sas]

Keep your face away from other people's fins, and your mask will not get knocked off, Sassy.

What about the currents that have dislodged my mask? Or surge?

I'll repeat = what is the big deal about not having your mask on????

 

[dsteding]

Keep your face away from other people's fins, and your mask will not get knocked off, Sassy.

Nereas, you've yet to articulate any reason for your anti-mask removal attitude. Usually, you back up your strongly held positions with at least some form of reasoning, why won't you do that here?

 

[dsteding]

Nereas, you've yet to articulate any reason for your anti-mask removal attitude. Usually, you back up your strongly held positions with at least some form of reasoning, why won't you do that here?

Crickets . . .