AOW for Experienced Divers: An Open Letter to PADI

[Lorenzoid]

"It's like giving money away. Why would they do that?"

Because if they expect to be treated as a legitimate gatekeeper for recreational diving certification, making money cannot be their sole priority.

I may be overly cynical, but I believe making money is high enough on PADI's list of priorities that it would win out in this instance over the noble but costly idea of helping out a few senior divers. I really do not believe that today's PADI promotes diving out of idealism or altruism (or some other ism).

 

[Dr. Lecter]

"It's like giving money away. Why would they do that?"



I may be overly cynical, but I believe making money is high enough on PADI's list of priorities that it would win out in this instance over the noble but costly idea of helping out a few senior divers. I really do not believe that today's PADI promotes diving out of idealism or altruism (or some other ism).

That's cool. I expect an equal lack of moral outrage from you when someone looks at the situation and opts for forgery of a cert that exists (in this diver's case, anyway) solely to extort money.

 

[TMHeimer]

I've read most of the thread, which has some interesting suggestions mixed in with the usual AOW discussions along with other topics. So the OP asks why not a one dive course that's a lot cheaper than AOW-- for "seniors" of diving? 1,000 over 35 or so years is like 30 dives or so a year. Since ALL are logged, diversity of the dives is known (I know, someone else could show up with fudged totals, etc.). If someone does thousands of dives for decades without logging, SOL. In the case of the OP, I would assume at least the last 200 or so are recent enough that they could actually be checked out and confirmed if someone so desired.

So, how about this. The AOW card certifies you to a recommended depth of 100', thus all the "charters won't let me dive without it" discussions. I did AOW with 2 post OW cert. logged dives and learned a fair bit. To take the Instructor or Self Reliant Courses you need 100 logged dives. So, you set a number for anyone wanting this "quickie" AOW-- 500 or 1,000 dives perhaps. There would be some form of Knowledge Reviews, or a test, or both (none of which costs class time). The one dive required has to be Deep of course. Buoyancy of a 1,000 dive diver would of course be perfecto (that's the PPB Adventure Dive done). Some basic compass navigation (if you can do a square, which may take 3 minutes, you can certainly do a reciprocal heading and count 40 kick cycles, etc.). You'd have to throw in some other stuff because you still need to cover the other 2 specialties, but which ones? (another big topic). There may be other options for some, such as one tech. dive to 200' and call that his AOW. So, one dive, a fee to correct the test comes to what, $100 or less as the OP suggested? Then again, that's just about the price of a full tank of gas where I live. Now there would be of course the important point of the Instructor's fee/pay. After all, they are trying to make a living and it is their time taking these experienced divers through the motions. Maybe it's even something a DM could be now qualified to administer (and they get paid a lot less or not at all-- so I've heard). And there is the money that the shops would like to make. All the details would have to be ironed out by those who do that at PADI.

Now why in the world wouldn't PADI want to set up such a course? Oh, somebody already explained that.

 

[boulderjohn]

No. Your "point" assumed two falsehoods. That 1) people like me can't find jobs and 2) that companies care.

My point had nothing remotely to do with either. I used something called an analogy to compare two different yet similar concepts. My use of the analogy does not remotely imply that I endorse either side of the issue. In fact, it is common with an analogy for the writer to compare two concepts with which he or she is in fundamental disagreement. Your response is similar to the outraged response of the general public to the original publication of Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal. They, too, failed to see the author's true intent and took it to be intended at its literal level. It is a risk writers take when they try for too much subtlety in their writing, and I see I failed to make it clear enough for you.

---------- Post added May 29th, 2013 at 08:07 PM ----------

I may be overly cynical, but I believe making money is high enough on PADI's list of priorities that it would win out in this instance over the noble but costly idea of helping out a few senior divers. I really do not believe that today's PADI promotes diving out of idealism or altruism (or some other ism).

Please explain how PADI makes more money one way or the other. It is the dive shop offering the certification process that gets the money. PADI only gets a few dollars for instructional materials and the C-card. It would get about the same amount of money either way.

 

[eelnoraa]

I always say this. If you are commited to become a better diver, do classes like GUE fundamental or UTD EoR. They seem expansive, but what you get out of these class will be much more than average PADI AOW, Nitrox, Drysuit class combined. Even if you later realize DIR style is not for, or you didn't pass the class, you will still become a better diver.

 

[Keith.M]

Wow. I read through this whole thread. Another bash PADI thread, one of many.

Of all the places I have dived so far, I had one that I wanted to do but they required an AOW.

I stayed at Scuba Club Cozumel and they offered a wreck dive on the Xicotencatl.

You had to have an AOW level of certification and I did not have that at the time.

But did it say you have to have a PADI AOW? Nope. It could have been from SSI, SEI, NAUI, whatever. They are asking for an AOW card.

Why is this thread bashing PADI? Shouldn't the "letter" from the OP been addressed to ANY agency that offers and equivalent certification?

 

[TMHeimer]

Wow. I read through this whole thread. Another bash PADI thread, one of many.

Of all the places I have dived so far, I had one that I wanted to do but they required an AOW.

I stayed at Scuba Club Cozumel and they offered a wreck dive on the Xicotencatl.

You had to have an AOW level of certification and I did not have that at the time.

But did it say you have to have a PADI AOW? Nope. It could have been from SSI, SEI, NAUI, whatever. They are asking for an AOW card.

Why is this thread bashing PADI? Shouldn't the "letter" from the OP been addressed to ANY agency that offers and equivalent certification?

The OP's open letter was to PADI. Yes, maybe ALL the agencies should think about such a course for "senior' divers. In fact, I thought of saying that in my post. Maybe I assumed the OP was dealing with PADI people, some PADI shops, etc. thus his letter to PADI. PADI bashing so to speak happens because they are the biggest. I guess it goes with the territory. I think PADI has done a lot of good things for diving, despite some of the changes in dive courses in the last decade or two that draw negative reactions. I'm very comfortable being with PADI, but if a little bashing is needed here & there so be it. I think NAUI divers' view that their Master Diver cert. is so much more impressive than PADI's is wrong. I've also heard that generally their courses are pretty similar to PADI's. That was a little NAUI bashing to balance.

 

[LACounty4806]

LA County Moss Back certification



SDM
LA Co UW Instructor #11

Hi Sam,

I know you're generous with your past dive experience here on scuba board but I thought I'd mention this little typo in your credentials that i know you would want corrected. I don't think either of us would want anyone to believe that you were the 11th instructor certified by LA County. In fact there were 205 LA County instructors certified through UICC prior to your class, which was the 11th held. Maybe that is where the confusion came from. In fact your UICC number, if I'm not mistaken, is LA County UICC 1124. I hope this clears up thing for folks here.

 

[DevonDiver]

"Certification Cards' are a proof of training. They are not a license. Why would anyone expect a 'proof of training' when training had not been completed?

The OP seems to want a 'proof of experience'. I'd put forward that his log book adequately serves that purpose.

Those points considered, I don't see what his problem with PADI is....

PADI, as do all scuba training agencies, deal with training provision, not with experience logging.

The root problem seems to be that the scuba industry/community value 'proof of training' more highly than 'proof of experience'.

Alternatively, some elements of the scuba industry/community may be under a delusion that 'proof of training' equated to some form of 'license' granting approval or right to conduct specific activities...

Either way.... the OP has directed his angst at a very inappropriate target...

 

[Griffo]

I think it's all up to the trainer. I took a bunch of classes to get the SSI AOW card (actually ended up with Master Diver Card) while in Thailand. My motivation was twofold- one is that were I live, the boats simply will refuse to take you out to the sites without the card. It's not really their fault, after some idiots here killed themselves, the coroner made a number of recommendations. The people in charge of occupational safety then made these "recommendations" a requirement of all operators, which then meant they the operators had to follow these standards or face high fines and loss of insurance. So basically they are bound by law, although it's not an actual law per se.

Anyway, so I took the courses so I could do the dives, but ended up landing myself with a diving center with great instructors who went well above and beyond what the standard required. I had a ball, learnt some things, and don't regret it at all. Mind you, the prices in Thailand made it relatively cheap, but still... I could certainly see those classes being a complete waste of time for someone who has lots of dives under their belt and also end up in a cattle-class.