AOW for Experienced Divers: An Open Letter to PADI

[guyharrisonphoto]

Given what I have seen here and read elsewhere, it looks like I will be turning to other agencies for more advanced training options. But I did have to "suck it up" and get the card anyway. My suggestion to PADI is to offer a less expensive option for experienced divers to show their ability. It is how to "fit in" divers that are experienced to the training cycle so that they can spend money on more appropriate training. It is not that I feel I have "nothing to learn." Far from it. But, the course only reviewed things I learned long ago and did nothing to advance my skills.

 

[dytis-sm]

Let's also be honest. There's a lot of "old school" (and not so old school too) divers with experience who believe there is nothing to learn. Most recreational-only dive instructors from tropical destinations fit that bill. I agree that the curricula from a regular AOW course could prove boring to you or many experienced divers. But Im sure if you had found yourself a good tech instructor and made AOW (I would have gone for Deep Diver specialty through SDI as I can do PADI/SDI/TDI) with him, it would have been an interesting intro to tech course. I would have gladly done such a thing, like give you a tech oriented AOW/Intro to Tech class.


Again, independent instructors seem to be the best bet for that sort of diver.

That is what I would have thought too... at that level after 1000 dives, an Intro to tech would make common sense.

I agree that AOW is useful to someone learning the ropes, and it is probably very boring for someone that has learned from experience. I do not even think that I was or I am an "Advanced" diver in the sense of the diving boats, although I have above AOW certification (according to PADI I am a Master Scuba Diver). The terms is a bit misunderstood and I think that it makes more sense for the diving boats to look at someone's logs... That should shed more light as to the capabilities of the diver. I went on an "Advanced" diving trip once after being AOW certified, to understand why they insisted on "Advanced" and to be frank I was not that ready. My buoyancy stank (particularly having to dive with Aluminum on deep dives for the first time), my gas consumption consequently horrible, and had to battle to stay with the rest of the guided group... I think those dive shops that ask about AOW certification to prove "advanced" level, they are just looking for trouble. I think that a large percentage of the AOW divers are probably not ready for the "Advanced" dives, and I think the opposite holds true where some non AOW certified divers are probably overqualified for them. Therefore there should be a "screening" process not involving a card.

 

[ElGaucho]

Again, I understand your feeling, but the proper instructor could have advanced your skills. It is not AOW´s fault, but the instructor´s, inmho. Find good instructors, take private classes, and then receive the type of two way interaction that would make ANY class, worth it.

 

[boulderjohn]

I suspect PADI might be amenable to an "Experienced Diver AOW" if the fee were exactly the same as regular AOW. I can't imagine that the two shops that turned you away after seeing a logbook with 1000 dives sincerely thought you might be a liability on deeper dives; they probably have that policy more as a way of prodding people to take their AOW class than as a way to limit liability exposure. It's all about the money.

You folks do realize that PADI has absolutely no control over whether or not a dive operator requires AOW for a dive? You do realize that the only benefit PADI gets from a student taking an AOW course is the cost of the academic materials and the certification card--the rest of the money goes to the shop and instructor providing the instruction?

I wonder what you would have thought if the OP had written the following instead:

Dear Harvard University:

Over the past decades, I have read a lot of books and had a lot of experiences that provided me with much more information than a typical college degree. I find, though, that I am unable to get the kind of job for which I am qualified because for some reason businesses are requiring a college diploma. I also find that it matters what college provides the diploma, and Harvard seems to do well in that category. I therefore suggest that Harvard have a program that provides a Harvard degree to anyone who can provide a list of books read that are equivalent to a college degree and who can pass a single check out test covering key concepts in those books. I believe that should cost $100.

PS: I notice that a lot of your recent graduates really, really suck compared to me. You should do something about that.​

 

[packrat12]

guyharrisonphoto,

I can sympathize with you. I was certified OW in 1984. I tried to go diving on a wreck in the keys with a very recent AOW diver and had the same problems. Most of my gear that I bought new was older then the person I was diving with. The dive operator looked at him with his logbook, all training dives, and said he was fine. He looked at me and said that I would need a guide to be 'safe'. Funny thing was that I was the diver who signed his logbook for all of the advanced training dives for him. He had moved prior to getting the dives and his instructor accepted my sign-offs as completing the requirements. I even had refused to dive with him until I did a checkout beach dive to make sure he knew what he was doing (he could not have lead a dive but could be a part of one even at AOW level).

I have only gotten my AOW+ since because I am getting my daughter's certifications as high as I can so she never has the same issues with being refused a dive.

Being a very long term diver (Old), I have very little respect for the training that went into AOW as opposed to the OW back when it was a 6 week course with many sessions. As others have mentioned, yes everyone can learn something but I found very little in the course that I had either not already done in my OW (which was much more involved then today) or in my subsequent diving. The things that I did learn could have easily been read in a short paragraph in a book. I do not buy into the 'safer diver' philosophy as many of the worst divers I have encountered are AOW students and divers. When I see a training group on a dive that are destroying the reef due to improper buoyancy, it almost always is the AOW groups. The AOW certification seems to make many of them think that they are more accomplished then they really are.

I would love to see the training organizations go back to real training with more classroom time required. I would also like to see the agencies cease to have a 'money making' mentality that I believe the AOW currently is. I know this will never happen but one can hope. Sadly the race is to see how fast a diver can be churned out of the system. A couple of instructor sessions and a couple of dives is not enough to produce proficient and safe divers at the OW level. This course should go back to the full 6 wk course it used to be.

As my OW instructor said to us after certification, "I will not consider you divers until you have 20+ dives under your belt". I think I was a diver within 2 weeks....

 

[SailNaked]

I only became and instructor because it was cheaper than paying someone else to certify all of my children. consider it an investment in the future of diving. I am going to try that harvard letter do you mind if I cut and paste?

unfortunately if you came to me with a log book that can be forged, and a bunch of good stories I would still want to see you dive and use a compass, and if we are going to do that then why not five dives, and the dive shop would still want their money, so unless you have a friend that you dive with often that is also an instructor and willing to give you the Cert I do not see a short cut to prove up the experience.

If you can prove the equivelant of AOW then why not prove it to the shop requiring it or dive with another shop.

 

[Lorenzoid]

You folks do realize that PADI has absolutely no control over whether or not a dive operator requires AOW for a dive? You do realize that the only benefit PADI gets from a student taking an AOW course is the cost of the academic materials and the certification card--the rest of the money goes to the shop and instructor providing the instruction?

Why did you quote me? That understanding is what was behind my comment. The dive shop (and PADI) are mainly concerned with selling AOW courses.

 

[hroark2112]

The only issue I see with checking someone's log book is that some of us don't log our dives on paper. My computer logs them all and any dive shop I go with is more than welcome to peruse it, but it proves only that my computer did those dives. (Not that I'd lend out my primary computer, but that's not the point!)

i have a bunch of cards (including AOW & rescue) but I know my limits, there are dives I'm going to do this year only with my instructor. I'm not ready to venture out to the Tarpon wreck on my own yet.

The bottom line is that a shop you don't have a relationship with probably won't offer a cheaper option and PADI would likely make the same $$ on the course you're recommending. There's just no incentive for anyone to offer a less expensive option.

 

[tplyons]

I have my Rescue certification and it sounds like you could out-dive me any day. Not that I'm a poor excuse for a diver, but you have thousands of hours logged more than I do. The fact that they would let me on a boat before you is a disgrace, however, I understand their point.

Very much the same as my father. 20 years in the USAF, with technical experience beyond his years. He was laid off because he never got his bachelor's degree. 30+ years of real world experience and he was replaced by a pimply faced kid straight out of undergrad.

Real shame for both of you. But the AOW card is now in your wallet. Not fair that you had to pay the money, but from a standards point of view it makes sense, despite being taught all the same skills back in the day in OW.

It would be nice to see a grandfather policy to allow you to self-certify or just do check-out dives based on the requirements of your training and your dive count.

 

[AfterDark]

Same here. I pretty much slept through the AOW and Nitrox. A waste of my time and money. We should have been allowed to take a test(s) do a couple of dives and get our cert. I gained nothing from AWO or Nitrox except 2 cards and contempt for the system that has been created.