Anybody come across this thing yet? All in one pony bottle.

[The Chairman]

Sooo.... the real point, if I run out my buddy is probably very low as well, so that's why you would be prepared to air share with a pony. Got it.

It's also why I dive with Big Ass Tanks.

 

[ScubaSteve85]

I'm posting a photo of one of my pony bottles. This is an HP13 with stage rigging, a 1st, a button spg, and a 2nd. The first and 2nd are more or less identical to my primary regs.

I have AL19 and HP40s that I sometimes use.

Not sure what practical advantages the integrated setups would have. Maybe if I dove with one I could figure it out.

View attachment 407964

Thanks for posting a pic of your setup. Im picking up a 13 for travel and shallow quarry stuff from a guy that posted it up on the reddit boards. I wanted to rig it like a stage but I wasn't sure it would be long enough to hit both d rings. Good to see it can work. I still plan on eventually getting a 30 to bring along on open water stuff here in the Northeast.

It's going to shown at the DEMA in Texas. I think that was 2002 or 2003.

A bite valve during an emergency doesn't sound like a good idea. At 6cf, it doesn't sound like much of a buffer. Let's use the amount of gas in 500 psi of an AL80 as the basic starting point: (500/3000)80=13.6cf. This is less than half of that. I dove with a 19 for years, but basic dive and gas planning saw to it that I never ever had to use it. Today, if I'm slinging a bottle, it won't be less than 40cf. Why? It's enough gas for me AND A BUDDY to ascend with a good 5 minute safety stop.

I knew the website looked a bit..."dated." Yeah, even with a 13 instead of a 6, the idea of a bite valve doesn't really thrill me. Seems like it would be a bit arkward to use. Kind of like one of those pool floats where you have to bite and blow (ermmm...lol) into the valve at the same time.

 

[NYCNaiad]

@ScubaSteve85 I agree with the others...6 or even 13cf is way too small for most average divers & you're new so you're still likely breathing through air more quickly. I'm good with air & have a good number of dives under my belt, but even I wouldn't consider such a small tank as my back-up.

I have done an air share from stupid deep, where the one buddy ran out and the other buddy was almost out. I didn't have a pony, and on our ascent I was sending vibes to the almost OOA buddy that he was NOT going to run out as I was NOT giving up my necklaced reg. This was a rescue and both of them were horribly bent. The last I heard, they never dove after that incident. Buddies tend to run out of air together. If one buddy is checking their air, they usually prompt the other buddy to do the same. So, if one runs out, the other is probably almost out.

For the record, and it's as much as I'll publish on the interwebs, I was not a part of their dive team, nor were they a part of my class. I share the story only with my students as a study in the power of narcosis combined with the stupidity of an instructor.

Thanks for sharing. I hadn't considered this. Looks like I may be getting a new pony! Yee haw.

 

[WarrenZ]

I admire all of you who have figured out just what size is the minimum required size of pony. I did the same thing when I decided to get away from the spare air and get a real redundant setup I then also looked at what kind of dives I do and decided a 19 was a good size to carry and was larger than my bare requirement. I never surfaced from a dive wishing I had less air my advice is to go bigger than you need rather than hope your 9cf is enough.

Do the math and figure that you were doing your normal 100' dive when you got caught in a down current that shoved you to 150' before you got out of it now is that little tank going to get you to the surface?

Anyone care to run the numbers on that accent?

 

[Kharon]

This is my sling setup for a 13cf. I also sling a 6cf the same way and bought one of Wookie's that comes in a bag with clips ready to sling. It's also 6cf. BTW - Wookies has a breakaway strap that releases the bottle and has a regular octo. Highly recommended - can't beat the price.

 

[ScubaSteve85]

This is my sling setup for a 13cf. I also sling a 6cf the same way and bought one of Wookie's that comes in a bag with clips ready to sling. It's also 6cf. BTW - Wookies has a breakaway strap that releases the bottle and has a regular octo. Highly recommended - can't beat the price.
View attachment 408031

Nice setup! Thanks for the pic.

 

[2airishuman]

13 cu-ft may not be completely useless, but it's so limited, I just can't see myself ever choosing to sling a 13 when I can sling a 30 or 40

Today, if I'm slinging a bottle, it won't be less than 40cf. Why? It's enough gas for me AND A BUDDY to ascend with a good 5 minute safety stop.

I agree with the others...6 or even 13cf is way too small for most average divers ... I wouldn't consider such a small tank as my back-up.

I [...] decided a 19 was a good size to carry and was larger than my bare requirement. I never surfaced from a dive wishing I had less air my advice is to go bigger than you need rather than hope your 9cf is enough.

Do the math and figure that you were doing your normal 100' dive when you got caught in a down current that shoved you to 150' before you got out of it now is that little tank going to get you to the surface?

Anyone care to run the numbers on that accent?

ScubaBoard Groupthink #21: "The right size pony cylinder for most recreational divers is 40 cubic feet."

I think this is, at best, true only in very specific circumstances and is an example of either excessive tech bleedover or excessive conservatism.

I'm a big guy and I use lots of air. My SAC rate is 0.6 - 0.8. Using a conservative 30 fpm ascent strategy and the higher end of the SAC range at 0.8, that is, with actual uninflated numbers, to plan an ascent from 130 feet, I get:

.8 * (1 + 4)/2 * 130/30
8.666666666​

for the moving portion of the ascent plus:

.8 * (1 + 15/33) * 3
3.490909089​

for the safety stop, a total of just over 12 cubic feet.

You can inflate these numbers and get whatever answer you want by imaging scenarios where you can't ascend for xxx period of time after switching to the pony, or where you are stressed and breathing more air and somehow don't calm down during the leisurely 7 minute ascent, or (and this is a new one on me in this thread) where you somehow end up having to rescue not just yourself but two other divers, or you're in a downcurrent.

And if you see those scenarios as being relevant for the dive you're doing, great, do your math that way, and if your minimum safe dive configuration is to sling a 40, well, dive the way you want. I won't object. Take it a step further if you like and dive a twinset on all your dives.

But I don't think it's fair, accurate, or research-based to present this as the minimum safe configuration that recreational divers should consider when using a pony. I don't think it's a reasonable way to counter the presence in the marketplace of the packaged, heavily marketed 1.5 and 3.0 cubic foot cylinders with the implied message that dive safety is something you can purchase and carry in the pocket of your BC.

Because in reality, most divers can make a safe ascent from any recreational depth on an AL13, and a diver who carries an AL13 in a sling or in some other safe way, who is skilled in its use and aware of its limitations, and who practices to maintain skills, is going to be safer than a diver without one.

A larger cylinder adds weight and bulk and with that more potential reasons to dive without it.

Now, if the underlying problem is that you need to bring more air overall, to solve other people's problems or deal with downcurrents or whatever, you have choices, either a bigger primary dive cylinder, or doubles, or a larger pony. But none of that has anything to do with the reasons people usually have a pony cylinder, which is ordinarily to make a self-reliant dive with redundant air that is equivalent to the buddy system.

 

[kelemvor]

This is my sling setup for a 13cf. I also sling a 6cf the same way and bought one of Wookie's that comes in a bag with clips ready to sling. It's also 6cf. BTW - Wookies has a breakaway strap that releases the bottle and has a regular octo. Highly recommended - can't beat the price.
View attachment 408031

I like that valveulator or reguvalve or whatever it is. Got a name or a link by chance?

Here's my pony setup. 13cf. It's still new, so exact configuration is a work in progress.

 

[stuartv]

@2airishuman I think you make valid points.

Really, someone who is skilled and practices should be able to do a CESA from 130' and not need a pony at all (I think - not saying it would be easy, though). So, a pony bottle that even gets you 1/2 way and you have to CESA from there is still better than nothing.

My thought is simply that there are easy-to-imagine scenarios where you would really want a 30 or 40. In which case, why not just buy one and be done? If you have the extra dosh to throw at having a big pony and also a smaller pony for situations that don't need a big one, more power to you.

Personally, I generally do just dive a twinset for all dives. I have only used a single tank in the last year when I was helping with an OW class as part of DM training.

As an aside, I note that nobody has said anything about having to do a bottom swim before starting the ascent. It's all well and good to only need 8 cu-ft to get to the surface, but a lot of my dives would first require getting back to an anchor line before starting the ascent. Another reason I would not personally spend money on a cylinder smaller than a 30. Actually, I wouldn't spend money on one smaller than a 40. But, I do have a 30 because I basically got it for free with a deco reg I bought.

 

[2airishuman]

My thought is simply that there are easy-to-imagine scenarios where you would really want a 30 or 40. In which case, why not just buy one and be done?

1. For some divers, the size and weight difference may be significant. I have no problem advising divers asking about pony cylinders: "an AL19 is usually a good choice but an AL40 costs the same and may be an alternative worth considering if the size and weight don't pose a problem."

2. While we can imagine many things, most of them are outside the realm of the problems that carrying a pony is intended to solve.

I note that nobody has said anything about having to do a bottom swim before starting the ascent. It's all well and good to only need 8 cu-ft to get to the surface, but a lot of my dives would first require getting back to an anchor line before starting the ascent.

A dive that requires a horizontal swim before a safe ascent can be made is not a recreational dive.