Any PADI instructors here who are also DIR compliant?

[danvolker]

Dan-that looks like just about any local class at our lake around here. Really no difference from what I can tell.
Funny little story-friend of mine was letting me try out some of her gear on a busy holiday weekend last summer. We were diving together shoulder to shoulder at the local mud hole, working our way out to the drop off point, in about 15 feet of water, and had to swim past a large OW class. My friend is Cave 1 certified and has nice skills, we were both certainly not looking like new OW students on day one, at least I hope.
Anyway, one of the instructors of this very large class thought we were lost and made a beeline to head us off at the pass.
The visibility really wasn't that bad, at least 10-15 feet. We had a great laugh when he slammed his brakes on and went back to standing with his students in a semi-circle on the bottom.

It reminds me of the near ending scene in Apocalypse Now where Marlon Brando is saying ... " .....the horror"

 

[TSandM]

My job is not to turn them into skill monkeys, my job is to show them how to stay alive throughout their diving career. I give them a reasonable amount of trust - trust that they will help me help them work through stress before it becomes a problem, trust that they will look after themselves first and their buddy second, and trust that they will use sound judgement before, during, and after their dive. If they break that trust, we go back to the root cause and work it out - not sit in 4' of water and play with each other's octos or push a skill just to "get it done".

Pocky, if I am reading this correctly, you are implying that GUE classes do nothing but drill students on skills without any form of integration into diving practice. This really isn't true at all; in a Fundamentals class, for example, you ARE expected to be able to do the skills smoothly, but maintaining buoyancy, trim, team positioning, awareness and communication is really the core, and those are the faults that will cost you the most when the instructor is evaluating you. I know the class reports and some of the agonizing people do over the classes might give one the idea that skills are evaluated in isolation, but honestly, I think THAT particular sin is more frequently seen in mainstream classes, rather than GUE ones.

 

[danvolker]

Dan-that looks like just about any local class at our lake around here. Really no difference from what I can tell.
Funny little story-friend of mine was letting me try out some of her gear on a busy holiday weekend last summer. We were diving together shoulder to shoulder at the local mud hole, working our way out to the drop off point, in about 15 feet of water, and had to swim past a large OW class. My friend is Cave 1 certified and has nice skills, we were both certainly not looking like new OW students on day one, at least I hope.
Anyway, one of the instructors of this very large class thought we were lost and made a beeline to head us off at the pass.
The visibility really wasn't that bad, at least 10-15 feet. We had a great laugh when he slammed his brakes on and went back to standing with his students in a semi-circle on the bottom.

Of course, unlike a lake bottom , the PADI or NAUI instructors running classes like this at the BHB, are doing it on top of a world famous location for Nudibranchs, Frog fish, sea horses, mantis shrimps, octopus and a dozen others....
Is it an apathy borne of financial need? What is the excuse?

 

[pocky21]

Pocky, if I am reading this correctly, you are implying that GUE classes do nothing but drill students on skills without any form of integration into diving practice. This really isn't true at all; in a Fundamentals class, for example, you ARE expected to be able to do the skills smoothly, but maintaining buoyancy, trim, team positioning, awareness and communication is really the core, and those are the faults that will cost you the most when the instructor is evaluating you. I know the class reports and some of the agonizing people do over the classes might give one the idea that skills are evaluated in isolation, but honestly, I think THAT particular sin is more frequently seen in mainstream classes, rather than GUE ones.

That was not my intention whatsoever, and I apologize if that's how you interpreted it. What I was trying to point out, rather, is I have seen more than one instructor who focuses so much on skills and so little on application. Their students do impeccably well when told to do skill x,y, or z - but they couldn't reason their way out of a lobster pot. Every time I hear an instructor say "in the unlikely event...", my ears bleed a little. For example, I now brief my CESA starting with "This is a skill you should never have to use, because you will never allow yourself to be in this position."

I do believe, however, that many people are falsely under the impression that not just GUE, but scuba instruction in general, is all about doing skills. I feel this is perpetuated by class structure and practical sessions that more closely resemble a game of "Simon Says" than any actual dive I've ever done. Furthermore, I believe that the respective training agencies are only a small part of this problem, and that some agencies remedy this through not only tighter standards but a big picture evaluation of who will ultimately come to represent them. I'm sure these agencies have their problems too, but thus far my only complaint about their divers is they have a tenancy to make me feel self conscious if my trim is a few degrees off

 

[TSandM]

Thanks, pocky! I have the same gripe about teaching isolated skills, and we do not do that in our PADI classes. Although skills are done in the pool in isolation, they're repeated in the pool while diving, and done as much as possible while diving in the OW dives. We also set up our classes so the tour portion is as long as the student's gas allows. You learn to dive by diving, not by doing skills!

 

[danvolker]

A big gripe of mine is the way so many of the big classes we see have no concept of efficient swimming or propulsion taught....this is related to the ignorance of allowing students to be heavily weighted and swimming with head up and feet down in a 45 degree angle....but it is also a complete lack of awareness about proper kick shape, and how to get from point A to point B efficiently.

 

[DCBC]

Okay, DCBC -- I just reviewed the standards for the GUE OW class. ...and in fact, the PADI class involves quite a few skills the GUE class doesn't require at all (like a navigation swim). ...A PADI instructor may not, however, require the GUE standard of buoyancy and trim to certify a student.

The PADI diver can be able to survival float, but otherwise be a non-swimmer. GUI requires in-water non-aided competence in this area, PADI doesn't.

I standby my response to Randy's post. "Its not so much about staying within standards but more about exceeding the standards to the point where a CD or IT looked at the class and question you "WTF are you doing???" kind of scenario."

It pertains to exceeding Standards, not with how much the PADI program can or cannot comply with DIR. PADI Instructors cannot exceed PADI training requirements and must not deviate from the PADI program; as we both know. NAUI Instructors do not operate within the same restrictions, nor do they conform to a paint-by-numbers way of teaching. Obviously Clients have the ability to choose what's best for them.

 

[danvolker]

The PADI diver can be able to survival float, but otherwise be a non-swimmer. GUI requires in-water non-aided competence in this area, PADI doesn't.

I standby my response to Randy's post: "Its not so much about staying within standards but more about exceeding the standards to the point where a CD or IT looked at the class and question you "WTF are you doing???" kind of scenario." It's about exceeding Standards, not with how much the PADI program can or cannot comply with DIR. PADI Instructors cannot exceed PADI training requirements and must not deviate from the PADI program; as we both know.

If the world began describing the PADI OW I as a Learner's Permit course, it might actually be a valid course concept....in that it is so easy that you can draw the masses in to it....but it needs to be seen as only a learner's permit...when certified with this, a great deal must still be learned and mastered before the diver can be expected to handle much more than a pool by themselves.

 

[DCBC]

If the world began describing the PADI OW I as a Learner's Permit course, it might actually be a valid course concept....in that it is so easy that you can draw the masses in to it....but it needs to be seen as only a learner's permit...when certified with this, a great deal must still be learned and mastered before the diver can be expected to handle much more than a pool by themselves.

I agree; unfortunately the PADI OW Diver is not to be certified until he IS capable of diving unsupervised. All too often they are not and are still certified.

 

[danvolker]

I agree; unfortunately the PADI OW Diver is not to be certified until he IS capable of diving unsupervised. All too often they are not and are still certified.

Exactly! And as of now, all the divers in this video could very well be getting a c card after completing this day of diving....that is so wrong!
[video=youtube_share;LGcGU-I2jK4]http://youtu.be/LGcGU-I2jK4[/video]