Any PADI instructors here who are also DIR compliant?

[Peter Guy]

Randy -- part of the problem is the age old issue -- What is DIR? or, perhaps, What is the core of "DIR" diving?

IF all you are doing is focusing on equipment, then I believe you are missing the important stuff. OTOH, there is nothing in "PADILand" that is inconsistent with "DIR Diving" or instruction.

When I took "Essentials of DIR" I was required to have non-split fins and a "long hose" which, I believe could be 40" (maybe 60 but I honestly can't remember and, quite frankly, the exact length is irrelevant!). "Essentials of DIR" was NOT a GUE class but it certainly was a "DIR" class in that we focused on standardized equipment (to an extent); non-silting kicks; Primary Donate; and Teamness. NONE of those items are inconsistent with a PADI class.

Within the PADI system, the instructor is required to hold the student to the standard of "Mastery -- being able to comfortably, repeatedly, perform the skill in a manner expected of a diver at that level." So, can I, as a PADI instructor, require my students to "comfortably, repeatedly, perform" a mask remove/replace while maintaing a 5 foot window in the water column (what is needed for a Rec pass in GUE Fundies)? Maybe -- although I probably wouldn't "demand" it but, in fact, generally my students CAN do this.

Can I require they learn "Primary Donate" -- yup -- if that is the gear. BTW, primary donate is also what is involved in Air2s and Airsources and MY LDS sells about half of its BCs with such things so teaching Primary Donate is well within both my shop "standards" and PADI standards (as well as "DIR" standards).

I start students off with the full leg flutter -- but encourage them to mimic me (and the rest of the crew) doing the frog or modified flutter. But, unlike, for example, the GUE OW class, I only have 4 or 5 pool sessions so something has to give. But, as far as I know, there is nothing to prohibit a PADI instructor from teaching the students a frog or mod-flutter from the get-go all the time staying within PADI standards.

There is so much mis-information about PADI out there that this is longer than it needs to be.

I had breakfast today with two GUE trained divers, a NAUI Instructor and a PADI DM (well, actually ALL of us have GUE training!) and we talked about this. There is nothing within the PADI system that prevents "DIR Type" training -- all it takes is that the instructor corps be exposed to such training and a belief that such training IS possible within the PADI system.

BTW, I use a 40" hose on the primary because I am required by PADI standards to have the students use a snorkel and although Thal says it isn't an issue, I have a problem with using a long hose and a snorkel. So I just use the 40" hose (which used to be the GUE standard for OW) and the snorkel and have no issues with getting things tangled. For what it's worth, I hate snorkels!!!!

 

[randytay]

Peter, your answer clarifed a lot of things for me. I am asking because today I watched the PADI DM DVD which shows a list of "demonstration quality" skills, which includes "buoyancy control" and "hover motionless for 30 seconds".

As a PADI instructor, I am assuming you saw the same segments as I did. So while watching it, it got me thinking: This is what PADI is showing for DM level, hence OW videos is either going to be similar or less demanding (this is the first PADI course I am taking btw so I am not familiar with any videos before this), i.e a minimum requirement. Now, I am going to imagine that any instructor who is DIR trained will probably be more demanding in their requirements and hence was wondering would they teach a horizonal trim with good buoyancy control during OW rather than have the same student sign up for Peak Peformance Buoyancy? Or how about the hovering motionless? Would instructors require students to hover in the prone position or follow the "standards" on the video using a cross legged vertical position to hover?

I do not expect instructors to teach OW to the standards of UTD or GUE Rec1, but I am mainly interested in the individual requirements of the student, would those requirements get the instructors in trouble if the person they answer to is not familiar with DIR requirements?

Or using what you said as an example, "there is nothing to prohibit a PADI instructor from teaching the students a frog or mod-flutter from the get-go all the time staying within PADI standards." Its not so much about staying within standards but more about exceeding the standards to the point where a CD or IT looked at the class and question you "WTF are you doing???" kind of scenario.

 

[Thalassamania]

I do not believe that there is anything that prevents a PADI instructor from wearing full DIR rig whilst teaching students who are similarly equipped.

 

[Peter Guy]

Thal wrote

I do not believe that there is anything that prevents a PADI instructor from wearing full DIR rig whilst teaching students who are similarly equipped.

That is actually overstating the issue. There is, in fact, no standards violation if I (as the instructor) am wearing a BP/W, 7' hose (primary donate), jet fins and my student is wearing a "poodle jacket" with a "traditional" octo/primary setup. The "similarly equipped" is, in fact, fairly flexible -- I could even be wearing doubles backmount.

OTOH, it would probably NOT be within standards if I, as the instructor, was CCR while my student was in a "traditional OC rig" and probably NOT OK if I was sidemount with my student in a "traditional OC rig."

What is "similar" is, in fact, pretty vague!

Randy, don't know how to answer your question. I've only had one experience working with a CD and that was when I took my IDC. As a practical issue, I don't have anyone watching what I do when I teach a class so, in fact, NO ONE watches over me (and that, BTW, is one hellish scary thing!).

I read the standards, I talk with PADI HQ, and I teach a good class (I think).

 

[String]

There is at least 1 school in the UK i know of that teaches students in full plate,wing,long hose DIR setup. Its completely within standards.

 

[boulderjohn]

Can you "demand" more without getting into trouble?

Depending upon what you mean by "more," definitely. You can certainly demand more than is frequently demanded of students.

There is so much mis-information about PADI out there that this is longer than it needs to be.

I had breakfast today with two GUE trained divers, a NAUI Instructor and a PADI DM (well, actually ALL of us have GUE training!) and we talked about this. There is nothing within the PADI system that prevents "DIR Type" training -- all it takes is that the instructor corps be exposed to such training and a belief that such training IS possible within the PADI system.

Peter's full post is excellent--I just wanted to emphasize this part of it.

I am asking because today I watched the PADI DM DVD which shows a list of "demonstration quality" skills, which includes "buoyancy control" and "hover motionless for 30 seconds".

There is a certain irony in your directing this example at Peter. Last year he was a part of a group of instructors who submitted an article on a different approach to teaching the OW class to PADI, and one of his contributions to the group effort was an observation that none of the video materials students view for the class ever show anyone performing skills neutrally and in trim. This observation did not end up being part of the final draft, but it was mentioned during discussions with the PADI training department related to the article. They said they would immediately begin working on plans to remedy that situation.

I will take this back to Peter's last statement about realizing that such training is possible within the PADI system.

As I myself worked on adjusting how I instructed over the past couple of years, and I reached the point that my students were performing all their skills in the second half of the pool sessions, including weight belt removal/replacement and scuba unit removal/replacement, while neutrally buoyant in mid water. They were also demonstrating pretty reasonable buoyancy control and trim while swimming. Other instructors using the more traditional approach to introducing skills took the same amount of time to produce students who needed to be anchored to the floor to do any such skills, and they could not demonstrate anything close to decent buoyancy control while swimming.

All can be done within the existing PADI standards, as can be seen by the fact that PADI accepted the article for publication it its professional journal.

 

[DevonDiver]

I wear BP&W to teach PADI courses. I compromise with my hoses. The only problem that I see with full DIR configuration, fin kicks etc, is that it would be inconsistent with the PADI materials and demonstrations on the video etc. The solution is to do it the PADI way and add extras.

 

[Peter Guy]

Andy wrote

The only problem that I see with full DIR configuration, fin kicks etc, is that it would be inconsistent with the PADI materials and demonstrations on the video etc.

Unfortunately I agree it IS inconsistent with PADI materials (up to and including DSAT) since the demos appear to be all "on the knees." HOWEVER, it is NOT inconsistent with PADI STANDARDS to teach non-silting kicks, etc.

John -- Thank you.

 

[randytay]

I wear BP&W to teach PADI courses. I compromise with my hoses. The only problem that I see with full DIR configuration, fin kicks etc, is that it would be inconsistent with the PADI materials and demonstrations on the video etc. The solution is to do it the PADI way and add extras.

I think this is what I am trying to get at.

 

[SubMariner]

Now, I am going to imagine that any instructor who is DIR trained will probably be more demanding in their requirements and hence was wondering would they teach a horizonal trim with good buoyancy control during OW rather than have the same student sign up for Peak Peformance Buoyancy? Or how about the hovering motionless? Would instructors require students to hover in the prone position or follow the "standards" on the video using a cross legged vertical position to hover?

There is no "standard" mandating that a hover be performed "using a cross legged vertical position". A diver may use any position they like, as long as the standard is met that they "Hover using buoyancy control for at least ______ [insert time frame here, depending on course] without kicking or sculling."

Thus an Instructor or student may hover upside down, sideways, whatever, as long as they demonstrate mastery of the hover by not kicking, sculling, or moving up/down in the water column.