Any PADI instructors here who are also DIR compliant?

[boulderjohn]

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This is being used by NASE.... It should embarrass PADI into doing the right thing--they are a mainstream agency , and as such, they have put a bar up that PADI is no where near.

NASE is a brand new agency that was started by technical divers with cave diving skills in mind. It did not have millions of existing manuals and other documents in its inventory--it started from scratch, and since it is brand new, it only needs a small initial inventory. It did not have a 50 year history that was built on the instructional processes started roughly 15 years before. It did not have a history of teaching nearly a million new divers around the world every year with instructional materials printed in multiple languages.

Perhaps you could spotlight what is being done by all the other established agencies at the moment. This site lists 56 agencies teaching recreational diving. Several of them, like NASE, were started by technical divers within the last few years and base their instruction on technical skills. Why not highlight the traditional agencies on this list that are doing more than PADI in this regard? Wouldn't their pioneering efforts--if there are any--be more along the lines of something that should put other agencies to shame?

 

[danvolker]

NASE is a brand new agency that was started by technical divers with cave diving skills in mind. It did not have millions of existing manuals and other documents in its inventory--it started from scratch, and since it is brand new, it only needs a small initial inventory. It did not have a 50 year history that was built on the instructional processes started roughly 15 years before. It did not have a history of teaching nearly a million new divers around the world every year with instructional materials printed in multiple languages.

Perhaps you could spotlight what is being done by all the other established agencies at the moment. This site lists 56 agencies teaching recreational diving. Several of them, like NASE, were started by technical divers within the last few years and base their instruction on technical skills. Why not highlight the traditional agencies on this list that are doing more than PADI in this regard? Wouldn't their pioneering efforts--if there are any--be more along the lines of something that should put other agencies to shame?

John, the picture in the NASE ad says what needs to be said......

.....That PADI has essentially been teaching divers to stand and kneel on the delicate sea bottoms. ....
....It would be easier to defend had PADI said this could only happen in swimming pools, but that was not the case.
It does not take a technical or cave background to KNOW that divers should not be taught that it is just fine to walk on the bottom..there was never any excuse for this, and there never will be.
You could argue that divers won't hurt anything on a mud bottom, but muck divers the world over would argue with this, not to mention the silting this causes, and obvious retardation of the instructor that purposely has his students go into a high silting environment, and then move the vis from 20 feet or more, to one foot or less.

Why do you feel like you need to be an Apologist for PADI? The overwhelming majority here KNOWS that you are in the top percent of good Instructors ( from a huge number of posts by SB members that have actually witnessed your instruction in person---this transcends any agency affiliation)....In other words, the World knows to choose you as a good instructor, and the world will not have even a remote concern as to your agency affiliation.
And in this world, that is EXACTLY the way things need to be!!!

 

[supergaijin]

John, the picture in the NASE ad says what needs to be said......

.....That all mainstream scuba diving agencies have essentially been teaching divers to stand and kneel on the delicate sea bottoms. ....

Fixed it for ya.

This is where PADI-deriders run out of reasonable argument IMO. Take a random sample of today's freshly certified divers from any mainstream recreational diving agency. What is the real difference in control? All of the main-player agencies instructors have been teaching from the knees for decades. NAUI also has plenty of kneeling photos. CMAS/FFESSM teaches from the knees also IME. SSI the same.

PADI seems to be the first to announce a substantial change in 'the way the world learns to dive'. I expect the other equivalent agencies (SSI, NAUI) to follow suit....again.

 

[DevonDiver]

Take a random sample of today's freshly certified divers from any mainstream recreational diving agency. What is the real difference in control? All of the main-player agencies instructors have been teaching from the knees for decades.

As I understand it, this was the formal approach or philosophy. Skills were isolated and focused upon. Developed from simple to complex It was deemed 'distracting' to combine skills at an early stage. Thus, combining buoyancy with other initial skills may have been deemed 'complex'. Thus buoyancy skills were deferred in the confined water sequence and not combined from the start.

"What flexibility do you have in sequencing confined water dives?
1. You already understand that people learn in small steps by building upon what they’ve already mastered. This is why, in all PADI courses, the skill sequence moves from simple to complex.
2. Component or subskills are introduced first, then used to master more complicated skills. For example, regulator clearing and recovery is learned before alternate air source breathing.
3. In courses that have multiple confined water dives, such as the Open Water Diver course, you must conduct the dives in sequence. Student divers must satisfactorily meet the performance requirements for one dive before progressing to the next...
4. ...avoid task loading student divers by introducing too much at one time. When in doubt, introduce skills separately."
PADI Course Director Manual 2010, Curriculum, Confined Water Training

PADI seems to be the first to announce a substantial change in 'the way the world learns to dive'.

I do see this as a substantial change. I see it as an acknowledgement that buoyancy skill has to be combined with other skill practice in order for those skills to be 'mastered' whilst neutrally buoyant (the desired outcome), rather than just 'mastered' in isolation.

Whilst this makes initial learning 'more complex', it provides a better long-term outcome; competency upon qualification, rather than competency per session/per isolated skill.

I expect the other equivalent agencies (SSI, NAUI) to follow suit....again.

When it comes to the 'major' agencies, I see a lot of hesitation... waiting to see if someone else will 'test the water' first. That's the influence of lawyers and/or stock-holders, I presume.

 

[DCBC]

...All of the main-player agencies instructors have been teaching from the knees for decades. NAUI also has plenty of kneeling photos. CMAS/FFESSM teaches from the knees also IME. SSI the same. PADI seems to be the first to announce a substantial change in 'the way the world learns to dive'. I expect the other equivalent agencies (SSI, NAUI) to follow suit....again.

I think that we can look at this through different perspectives:

1. What does the Agency stipulate? ... A discussion about Agencies
2. How do Instructors teach? ... A discussion about Instructors

If the discussion is about Agencies, in all fairness I see a difference between:

1. PADI: In CW1 this is what you teach and the Instructor must not deviate from the program (content); and
2. NAUI, CMAS (and other Agencies): These are the "Minimum Requirements" for certification; but the Instructor should add whatever knowledge and skill-sets that the Instructor feels required as a condition of certification.

PADI specifically quantifies and restricts what can be taught in an OW program and specifies when it is to be taught. This certainly puts the Agency in control of what the PADI OW course looks like. It is designed to be the same program anywhere on the planet. Other Agencies specifically do not make such a requirement.

As you have mentioned NAUI and CMAS, neither of these organization (at no time) in their Standards mentions "the bottom" at all, or makes any suggestion in any instructional materials that any skill must be undertaken on or near the bottom.

Like you, I've seen photos showing kneeling. I interpret this as how one particular Instructor chooses to teach (opposed to what the Agency requires to be taught). Again the when and how is not an element for most Agencies.

It's worth mentioning that Agencies do make a requirement for certification which states (quoting from the NAUI Instructor's Manual): "Environmental Skills - Dive using skills that have a minimal impact on the environment and promote conservation."

A similar statement is made in Section 7 of the CMAS requirements for certification. So it would be a breach of NAUI and CMAS Standards to do otherwise in OW. The Student's can't be on their knees in OW. So the Instructor has no other reasonable option than to teach them in neutral buoyancy.

I don't understand why anyone would suggest that if PADI made changes the other Agencies would follow suit??? There are NO CHANGES that are required (in NAUI and CMAS at least). It's left up to the Instructor how s/he wishes to fulfill his/her training program and meet or exceed the "Minimum Requirements" for certification. This has always been the case.

PADI placed all sorts of restrictions on their Instructors in the early 90's. They moved into a teach-by-numbers approach. It would seem that they felt it the best way to manage a huge number of Instructors and develop their brand. No doubt they've been successful. This necessitated the development of a "this is what you teach and when formula."

No other Agency (that I'm aware of) operates in this manner. If PADI makes changes, it will only affect PADI. Many (if not all) the other Agencies have left it up to their Instructors to decide how they will instruct their students to meet the minimum requirements.

I've been teaching "off-the-knees" since the early 70's. Should we elect to do so, myself and tens of thousands of other Instructors are insured to teach in this manner. How they elect to teach, is another matter completely...

 

[Quero]

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