Any PADI instructors here who are also DIR compliant?

[daniel f aleman]

For some time, many here on Scubaboard have wondered why George Irvine would come up with the word Stroke...

I thought that G3 said that Parker used stroke from the mid-80s. No?

 

[beanojones]

For some time, many here on Scubaboard have wondered why George Irvine would come up with the word Stroke, and who in fact it "Ought: to be used to described.

Wikipedia should have BeanoJones photo next to the word Stroke....she is everything George created the expression to explain.

She is also the first person I have called a stroke in over a decade--and one of about 4 total.

The fact that you need someone else to come up for your insults for you is not, frankly, surprising.

The fact that almost none of your posts are about ideas (and simply never about your own ideas) is similarly not surprising.

No, I will not marry you, though. Though your devotion to me is cute, I do require intelligent thought, and beyond that independent thought in my partners.

For maximum cool points though, remember the cool kids apparently now use "Muppet", not "Stroke". Maybe the fact the cool kids have not taught you that word means you are no longer in the cool kids club? I am sure if you show them just how hard you are trying to fit in, they might let you be back in the club.

Me, I'd far rather be a Stroke, a Muppet, or whatever words the cool kids are using, than to think I know everything. Especially when the labeler has never even seen me dive. Because none of us do know everything, but apparently those of us who 'earn' our knowledge from parroting what others think they do know everything.

(Seriously, George Irvine has to give you even basic words to use? Really? How embarrassing for you that you need to use a label someone else came up in any case. And even more embarrassing that you feel the need to use about someone you have never even seen, and never will see dive. At least get it right, it's about the diver diving, not the ideas.

But then again that really gets to my point about GUE people often being focused on everything but diving, and even then focused on what others are doing and not themselves. Unfortunately, that does not translate to a GUE's instructor ability to focus on what students are doing: see below.

See my post does include an idea. And it is even somewhat about the thread topics. See if you can fit one or two in to your posts now and then.)

---------- Post added July 22nd, 2013 at 12:51 AM ----------

More gas management seems to imply that there is gas management in the OW course. Telling your instructor when you reach 750psi is nothing of the sort.

Apparently in your neck of the woods, the divers taught about Gas Management (one of those fetish things) are running OOA with you... your students OTOH are gliding gracefully through the water like a slippery siren until their inate LOA warning system brings them to the surface.


What very important details did this course miss? Honest question.

(Ignoring the snide just because who cares.)

If that's all the gas mangement you teach, then that is all the gas management you teach.

As far as the GUE OW course. search does not turn it up easily, but all the discussion is in that thread. One simple one, that is a basic gaffe even a newbie working DM gets, is the instructor was doing briefs with his students facing the sun. (If I remember right this was in Egypt, but frankly I don't remember.) The students were even obviously trying to cover their eyes to see what the instructor was doing. This level of lack of student awareness is breath-taking, and shows someone in love with the sound of their own voice, and apparently unable to even read students reactions DURING a BRIEF! Which bodes not well at all for ability to read things in the water.

Instruction by people who are not full-timers (or in this guys case, not even part timers apparently) is often cringe-inducing, but the cognitive dissonance between his pride in what he was doing and his actions as an instructor was frankly stunning. Every dive instructor should first remember they are unnecessary and people used to, and still do, teach themselves how to dive all the time.

 

[supergaijin]

As far as the GUE OW course. search does not turn it up easily, but all the discussion is in that thread. One simple one, that is a basic gaffe even a newbie working DM gets, is the instructor was doing briefs with his students facing the sun. (If I remember right this was in Egypt, but frankly I don't remember.) The students were even obviously trying to cover their eyes to see what the instructor was doing. This level of lack of student awareness is breath-taking, and shows someone in love with the sound of their own voice, and apparently unable to even read students reactions DURING a BRIEF! Which bodes not well at all for ability to read things in the water.

And this shows your absolute ignorance of any other environment than your own. Apparently your 20-odd years of tech diving has never seen you in a place like the Red Sea where the sunlight reflects off everything. As this was a 'made for video' presentation of the GUE course, I would suggest that the camera orientation was made so as to put the students in the light. Lighting angles are important in filming.

What I saw in the 'end' were some well trained beginner divers, who were fluid in the skills and aware of their surroundings.

I'm still interested in your opinion on what "important detail that should be absolute minimums in an OW course" were missing?

 

[beanojones]

And this shows your absolute ignorance of any other environment than your own. Apparently your 20-odd years of tech diving has never seen you in a place like the Red Sea where the sunlight reflects off everything. As this was a 'made for video' presentation of the GUE course, I would suggest that the camera orientation was made so as to put the students in the light. Lighting angles are important in filming.

What I saw in the 'end' were some well trained beginner divers, who were fluid in the skills and aware of their surroundings.

I'm still interested in your opinion on what "important detail that should be absolute minimums in an OW course" were missing?

Yes only in the Red Sea does sunlight reflect off everything. Apparently it even reflects off instructors in the Red Sea so well that an instructor facing the sun is actually brighter than the sun itself. Amazing that.

Ignoring details is the actual problem with that GUE OW course. As is saying "important detail" (your words) versus "important details" (what I wrote). Glossing over differences, or more importantly, not getting details right is the problem. Reinventing an OW course is unnecessary. Getting the details right in the already existing course is. Adding more stuff and not getting the details right is not a step forward, it's a step backwards in terms of time wasting. Those divers took a 10 day course. If that's all 10 days gets that instructor, then that's all that instructor can do. I would be kinda embarrassed with those results with that level of raw material to start with, but then again, this is what I do for a living. That's not what he does for a living.

But if you have a link to that thread about the video, post it for others to read. And argue with yourself (or me) about it in that thread. Posting insults without content is danvolker's job in this thread. Stop stepping on his toes. You can post contentless insults about me in that thread.

 

[supergaijin]

Yes only in the Red Sea does sunlight reflect off everything. Apparently it even reflects off instructors in the Red Sea so well that an instructor facing the sun is actually brighter than the sun itself. Amazing that.

the instructor was doing briefs with his students facing the sun.

Err...

Ignoring details is the actual problem with that GUE OW course. As is saying "important detail" (your words) versus "important details" (what I wrote).

a disorganized time wasting course that missed some very important detail that should be absolute minimums in an OW course.

Err...

Those divers took a 10 day course. If that's all 10 days gets that instructor, then that's all that instructor can do. I would be kinda embarrassed with those results with that level of raw material to start with, but then again, this is what I do for a living. That's not what he does for a living.

I agree that during a 10-day course there is a lot more time to create divers from non-divers. It's a lot more time than the standard vacation course- that's for sure. After 10 days of my training they'll still be beginners with a solid foundation. After 10 days with you, perhaps they're already Divemaster candidates?

In the video their trim looked good, awareness seemed good etc. and this was seemingly backed up by a few 'expert' witnesses

LINK: The GUE course video that Beano thinks produces crap.

 

[danvolker]

Errol Kalayci ( GUE INstructor in Palm Beach, Fl), just completed a GUE OW course with 2 students....a 5 day course I believe, with 18 hours of in water time.
From what I heard, these went in to the class as complete non-divers, and 5 days later, on the boat dives, they were diving better than the DM and advanced divers on the charter boat..skills were essentially identical to Fundies graduates. These divers NEVER learned anything in water on their knees, and I will try to dive with them on their very next Open Water dive, ( 1st one after certification class), to get video showing skills and comfort in the water, along with the FUN this will allow them on a few of our favorite dive sites in Boynton Beach.

 

[danvolker]

This is being used by NASE.... It should embarrass PADI into doing the right thing--they are a mainstream agency , and as such, they have put a bar up that PADI is no where near.

 

[DevonDiver]

View attachment 161496
This is being used by NASE.... It should embarrass PADI into doing the right thing--they are a mainstream agency , and as such, they have put a bar up that PADI is no where near.

To be fair, a greater portion of this thread does concern what PADI is doing. They expressed an intent through the 2011 article. That has yet to be reflected in standards. I think that is just a case of speed, not unwillingness. The larger the organization, the more inertia it faces. With such an organization, I'm guessing a fair amount of legal consultation has to happen before intent becomes formal policy and liability prone standards.

 

[danvolker]

To be fair, a greater portion of this thread does concern what PADI is doing. They expressed an intent through the 2011 article. That has yet to be reflected in standards. I think that is just a case of speed, not unwillingness. The larger the organization, the more inertia it faces. With such an organization, I'm guessing a fair amount of legal consultation has to happen before intent becomes formal policy and liability prone standards.

And from what the last several posts were discussing about impending change, it does suggest PADI will be able to improve greatly--unfortunately, many of the PADI instructors have very poor skill levels for buoyancy and trim--and will not be able to teach in the new direction..... At the same time, the awesome PADI instructors (people like Jeff at the Riviera Beach Force E), will be able to leverage their results even further--gain a new lease on what they will be allowed to create

 

[DevonDiver]

I do think that any changes in standards, as have been predicted by some in this thread, would allow some great deal of training revitalization by those instructors competent to implement it. It'd have the potential create a 'two-tier' provision of course quality. That'd be an issue PADI may have to face eventually, as their intentions are (as I understand them) course consistency on a global basis.