Any PADI instructors here who are also DIR compliant?

[DCBC]

In Djibouti I was working under the FFESSM system which IMO is a fairly radical departure from the scheme of the mainstream recreational agencies. 1* divers were not certified to dive independantly of a 'pro'. 2* was a more intense version of 'AOW' and 3-4* was very demanding. Some of the instructor ratings had me confused- to be honest I'm still a bit foggy.

I agree, the CMAS system is one of the most comprehensive training programs available. As far as the Instructor ratings are concerned, * may certify * Divers, ** Instructors may certify ** Diver, Rescue Diver, *** (Divemaster), O2, and train * Instructors (must be certified by a *** Instructor), *** Instructor (Instructor Trainer Examiner) may certify * and ** Instructors. A panel of *** Instructors appointed by the National Training Committee is required to certify a *** Instructor. Alternatively, the National Training Director may make such appointments.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

With the amount of mis-information among some instructor ranks that I've encountered in even my very limited experience, the thought of that scares me. The approach taken to vaguely define things is the difference between a handful of creative instructors finding ways to do what is best, and a bunch of idiots having a permission slip to teach whatever they want.

Remember, it's a two way street. We're looking at it with the vision of responsible, passionate instructors exceeding standards with a commitment to diver safety and excellence. Now, take Gomer Pile with his brand new instructor card and tell him he can throw in whatever he likes. I'm lead to believe that certain agencies intentionally define things a little loose - maybe for their own legal protection, and maybe to both allow the smart ones a little freedom and keep the dumb ones in line. I'm not saying it's right, or even favorable, but I'm willing to bet there's a lot more Gomer Pile's out there than the former.

Agreed... There will always be idiots.....and idiots will be idiots regardless of ANY agency rules, standards, minimums, maximums or credo's. Neither PADI or NAUI standards as they are offer any protection from idiots.

My question was not at all about whether or not having clear cut agency supported options was good or bad idea or to discuss what might go right or what could go wrong with someone else.


My question was simply... would YOU as an instructor prefer to have these choices and these options, along with the complete written support of your agency.

 

[pocky21]

My question was simply... would YOU as an instructor prefer to have these choices and these options, along with the complete written support of your agency.

Would any of us not prefer such a thing? It would be like having your boss approach you and say "Do your job however you want to do it, just make sure x,y, and z are done at the end, and I've got your back if you piss anyone off". As great as that sounds, it has little to no value in the real world.

This entire thread is producing an "us vs. them" mentality that centers around agency loyalties - I can think of nothing more counterproductive than this, it's just monkeys throwing poo at each other. We can all agree on the fact that the face of scuba instruction needs a makeover. Sadly, there are many more out there who either outright disagree or don't know any better. I will stay with PADI because I wish to show other PADI divers and instructors that there is a better way, and I will support the little victories here and there that seek to educate the masses (such as John's article). To try and break these victories down by arguing standards and legalities serves only to undermine our purpose, and further widen the gap between what would otherwise be great instruction.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Would any of us not prefer such a thing?

Exactly what I was thinking!!

It would be like having your boss approach you and say "Do your job however you want to do it, just make sure x,y, and z are done at the end, and I've got your back if you piss anyone off". As great as that sounds, it has little to no value in the real world..

Do you actually believe that the term "exceeding standards in ways that do not jeopardize student safety" equates to NAUI authorizing an instructor to do whatever they want to piss people off? Now those seem like some monkey crap sling'n words right there.. So much for the "can't we all just get along and make the world a better place" comments. And....I personally believe that having a clear cut option to teach to a higher level with the full written support of the agency, does have tremendous value in the real world.

This entire thread is producing an "us vs. them" mentality that centers around agency loyalties - I can think of nothing more counterproductive than this, it's just monkeys throwing poo at each other...

Man... I must really suck at this whole us vs them thing being that I happen to be an us who is seeing the argument for them! Maybe it's really just me vs me....so if I lose, I also win...unless of course there is a tie!


Either way... my entire point is to just express my point of view. . My point of view is that I personally believe that choice is always preferable to no choice.... for me.

Now if some dumb ass is out there making bad choices while whacking students and pissing people off, then I completely agree that that person should not be allowed to make choices.

And finally, in keeping with the original title of this thread......Thank God for all the PADI instructors out there who take it upon themselves to exceed the minimum requirements and choose to "Do It Right" ..... because teaching to the allowable minimum standards and BS like 2 day OW courses ain't cutt'n it in the real world, and unfortunately in our world, the penalty can be death.

 

[daniel f aleman]

224 posts, some interesting others mostly drivel.

Ahem: by definition, there are no PADI instructors who are DIR compliant. Why don't you ask if the color red is the same as the color blue? Wait, what? Exactly. (And really, most PADI instructors aren't even PADI compliant.)

 

[chrpai]

Would any of us not prefer such a thing? It would be like having your boss approach you and say "Do your job however you want to do it, just make sure x,y, and z are done at the end, and I've got your back if you piss anyone off". As great as that sounds, it has little to no value in the real world.

Man, I must be one lucky SOB. My boss doesn't even spell out what X, Y and Z is. He trusts me to evaluate that also.

 

[DevonDiver]

Ahem: by definition, there are no PADI instructors who are DIR compliant. Why don't you ask if the color red is the same as the color blue?

What definition are you referring to?

 

[pocky21]

Man, I must be one lucky SOB. My boss doesn't even spell out what X, Y and Z is. He trusts me to evaluate that also.

I always thought I was in the wrong line of work, then you had to go and say something like that. Guess it's not too late to be a plumber...

 

[supergaijin]

Personally I would like to be able to add things to the curriculum that has a pass/fail contingency. I trust myself to be thoughtful and conscientious about what I would introduce and assess the benefits etc. If I actually got off my ass, I could develop something and then contact PADI and request the change for my OW or AOW course.

I have met a few PADI instructors who don't actually analyse why and how things happen. Here on SB, the vast majority of posters actually do care about what they're doing, and take the time to analyse, critique, ask stupid questions sometimes, ask thought-provoking questions and generally further their education in the process.

Others do not educate themselves further than the Agency-way. They've never heard of some excellent educational materials that exist etc. I also met some FFESSM instructors like this as well- as DCBC explains (in English- not in French ), there are a host of different *rating Instructors and the bar is quite low IMO for the 1* Instructor, who can 'train' 1* divers. There were certainly a couple of dropkicks who were doing 1* Instructor in Djibouti who simply couldn't dive 'properly' IMO. I've experienced some 1* divers who were woefull underwater and this may well be a result from these 1*Instructors 'giving it a go'.

 

[DCBC]

...there are a host of different *rating Instructors and the bar is quite low IMO for the 1* Instructor, who can 'train' 1* divers. There were certainly a couple of dropkicks who were doing 1* Instructor in Djibouti who simply couldn't dive 'properly' IMO. I've experienced some 1* divers who were woefull underwater and this may well be a result from these 1*Instructors 'giving it a go'.

Unfortunately there are bad Instructors in every Agency (as I've already said numerous times in this thread). If you have examined the CMAS training program you will know that it's a long climb to become a CMAS * Instructor. One would think that with such proven competence the Instructor wouldn't be certifying poor divers (but no doubt it happens). The only consolation is that the divers these Instructors certify, must dive supervised.

My comments in this thread have come from the perspective of the certification Agency and not as an Instructor. When I was in the position of National Training Director for CMAS Canada I had to see thinks a bit differently, in-that I wasn't looking at how I educated the divers I train, but what the Agency should require as the minimum skill-sets in diver certification.

I was a PADI Instructor for 13 years. I assisted PADI with their expansion into Canada in the 70's. At the time I was the Training Director of the Ontario Underwater Council (OUC) and the Diving Operations Officer (Navy) at DCIEM in Toronto. I very much want PADI to achieve a high level of quality in their education process. Unfortunately, this has never been something that seemed of up-most importance to PADI from my experience.

I owned a PADI Facility and left when I could not morally continue with them. Before this time, I "enhanced the training program." Many PADI Instructors I know do the same thing. They teach outside the box, knowing that PADI will likely cut their head off in court for deviating from the Standards. They continue to teach anyway. I have no doubt that PADI has evolved since my association. I am however, still haunted by any Agency that offers a 2 day OW course. Again this is not one Instructor offering such a program; it's an International Agency sanctioning it.....

I suppose that with so many other Agencies out there, I cannot help but wonder why they stay with PADI. Certainly it's the largest Agency and employment is a big thing. The majority of Diving Instructors however don't make their living by teaching diving. Of the 42 years I've been teaching, 35 of them I've taught for free at a diving club. I teach SCUBA because I enjoy it, not to make money; I love diving and want to share this with others.