Another diver injured in Gilboa Quarry

[Hoosier]

Your analogy is inapt and inept. Learn the truth about the case here:

http://www.marlerblog.com/2006/07/articles/case-news/the-truth-about-the-mcdonalds-hot-coffee-case/

No… …. I don’t think so.. Why?

“It should have been a warning.” LOL~~~~

I read the link you post and my argument is still same. What other facts were new on that article? The primary fact (can’t be changed) was that the coffee was hot no matter what other previous reports we had. Am I right?

Everybody knows that the coffee is hot as it is supposed to be. It is made of the boiling water. It is common sense that people should be careful. If you try to find more cases and causal relationship due to a hot coffee, it is also an endless list.

In the same context, why don’t you sue against the ramen company? The ramen is supposed to be served with hot boiled water. Yes, water is supposed to 212 degree to cook. Don’t you think there is no burning accident due to hot ramen soup?

How about a stomach cancer? The recent studies show that the hot and spicy food increases a stomach cancer risk. So, you might to prepare for the law suit against any Indian and Mexican food or restaurant.

How about a hamburger? Many medical studies warned that too many hamburgers increase a cholesterol rate and induce a heart attack. Gee~~ someone already sued that.

You can sue anyone, make a case, and name a causal relationship, but it doesn’t’ mean it is valid, even in the common sense perspective. It is totally BS. Why do you think that McDonald’s case is so popular around world? Don’t know that it is a typical example to make fun of U.S. law system and practice. Do you want an on-going example? Check out this: Judge sues cleaner for $65M over pants


As for the scuba industry, to dive at any dive sites where are being run for a commercial base, especially in U.S. territory, to sign on the waive form is mandatory without exception. Even, some waive forms ask to put an initial every clauses and sentences. If the waive form isn’t enough to cover the owner’s ***, what other things does he/she need?

Even though the owner did nothing wrong, he/she keeps being worried about his/her *** thanks to the funny law cases such as a McDonald’s coffee. Do you think why?

Mike checks a deep dive plan in advance? It is for fun?

It is all about CYA and to keep the insurance cost down. Am I wrong?

Yes, my point is that it is because of an ambulance lawyer and insurance company who have been only successful to utilize the current law system in U.S.

It looks like you are a lawyer... Let's have your point....

 

[Land Locked]

SB drives me crazy! The K is over "over" moderating a simple thread, deleting posts and issuing warnings, and this thread has gone TOTALLY and COMPLETELY out of control!!! Can't we just get along and get back on topic? Let's try some agency bashing for awhile......

 

[Jchoby]

Ok, you too are equally welcome to your opinion.
And "first of all" Mike is in fact, certified and understands full well the hazards involved in diving his quarry. Regardless of that fact, he can & will run the place the way he sees fit and does take input from divers w/a lot more experience than 100 dives as well as attorneys. Folks dive there because he allows them to do so and at a fair price. There were a few more quarries available to us in Ohio years ago, but it seems they tend to be sold to developers when the owners weigh having to deal w/the general diving public that feel a sense of entitlement to diving on private land and don't want to play by the rules the owners set forth vs. just taking the money a developer is offering and running.
Again, you're welcome to express your opinion, I just think folks should know how experienced in the diving community the guy is that is calling the quarry owner a "dumb Ohio Farmboy" and giving him legal recommendations.
Mike had done a ton to help make the quarry safer and more attractive to divers. I hope he doesn't take your opinion as one that is shared by the majority of us who patronize Gilboa.
I can't apologize for him yelling at anyone. If that's one's beef we/him then just say "he yelled at me and it hurt my feelings"...it doesn't warrant the name calling. That doesn't benefit anyone.
Nobody forces anyone to go to Gilboa and there are other alternatives. I would suggest maybe choosing those locations if Mike's rules and/or personality are unacceptable to you. But coming on the Net and calling him a "dumb Ohio farmboy" that is "asinine" for calling for a dive plan "when he isn't even certified" is not right. Get your facts straight at the very least please.
Take care and dive safe.

Best Regards,
Brandon

Very well said!!! Mike and his staff appreciate the support....

My two cents

I don't know why our culture has issues with having to follow a few simple rules. We seem to whine about everything...even if its in our best interest. Mike does a hell of a job running a place where we can come and dive safely. Still there is always someone wanting to buck the system because they think they know better or are offended because they were told to get with the program. Bottom line, this is Mike's place of business not your living room. If you don't like his policies, do go there. I'll appreciate the extra room and better vis. If Mike appears rude, it most likely its because he's forced to deal with a bunch of self-righteous AH's constantly pushing the limits and potentially hurting his business by doing something stupid...resulting in a lawsuit against him for not protecting a moron from themselves.

 

[bladephotog]

Very well said!!! Mike and his staff appreciate the support....

My two cents

I don't know why our culture has issues with having to follow a few simple rules. We seem to whine about everything...even if its in our best interest. Mike does a hell of a job running a place where we can come and dive safely. Still there is always someone wanting to buck the system because they think they know better or are offended because they were told to get with the program. Bottom line, this is Mike's place of business not your living room. If you don't like his policies, do go there. I'll appreciate the extra room and better vis. If Mike appears rude, it most likely its because he's forced to deal with a bunch of self-righteous AH's constantly pushing the limits and potentially hurting his business by doing something stupid...resulting in a lawsuit against him for not protecting a moron from themselves.

Also well said. Like I said earlier. He has rules for a reason. Specifically because people who don't know what they're doing often end up dead. Please try and excuse him if he doesn't want that to happen there. I hazard to guess there'd be many more injuries and deaths there if he weren't so vigilant.

 

[Tigerman]

FFS guys.. its as simple as this:
If you wanna be on my property, you do as I say or I kick your *** out!
Like it or not! I dont like having corpses all over my property either..
No, I dont know the Mike guy and I dont have an opinion of him or his operation at all, but as long as its his private property, we dont have a say. Just deal with it and chose to go there or not.

As far as the incident goes, I hope the diver makes a full recovery if he havent already.

 

[tomdiddle]

Here's the bottom line here. Every diver has to take responsibility for him or herself. Just because they have the certification does not mean that they are ready to go to a certain depth or do a certain specialized dive. I have dove at the quarry many times and even if Mike does require a dive plan, it is up to the diver to not only stick to that plan but also to be fully capable of following through with that dive. There are to many people (divers) out there with certifications that say they are certified to do certain things but in reality they are not truely able to accomplish that dive plan. Yes I am certified to go to that depth, however I do not have that superman mentality that say's just because I have that certification I (should ) do it. The temp. is very cold at that depth and if you do not have the proper equipment to be at that depth then pack it up and go home. We have to use common sence here folks. I'm not saying that he was stupid in what he did. I'm saying what was his true qualifications. How many dives like this has he really done. Please guy's and gals, let's use our heads when diving in this type of water, (cold and Deep). Use the proper equipment and by all means just because you hold the certification, does not mean you are truely qualified to do that dive. I still won't go deep unless I have someone with me that I can definately trust my life with. Do us all a favor, Please oh Please be careful when you dive. Just one mistake may cost you your life or maybe someone else's too.

 

[JEScholz]

My .02 worth...

Accidents will happen even with the best of plans and redundant equipment.
Lawyers will encourage families to sue but it is the family's choice, not the Lawyer's.
Property owners are entitled to do what they can to reduce their liability.
If you don't like the way a business treats you, take your business elsewhere.
Heated discussions are good, name calling is bad.

Now can we all agree to disagree on the major issues of our day such as the war in Iraq, politics, religion, DIR and Mike? (just trying to lighten the mood of the discussion)

 

[Web Monkey]

Mod Post

I just finished cleaning up the thread.

Please refrain from name-calling and personal attacks.

If your post is missing, it is either a post that violated the TOS or quoted a post that did.

Terry Carmen, Moderator.
​

 

[J.R.]

... so, I opened this thread about a diver problem at Gilboa and ran into a semi-legal discussion on something or other... intersting. Any real news about what happened in the accident?

 

[cummings66]

So, we have a diver who was hurt at the quarry. Accidents happen for many reasons and to be honest an active quarry like this one is more likely to have diver mishaps than a place that rarely gets used. The thread name to me was perhaps a poor choice and incited some of the rhetoric I've seen and then not seen here, but regardless, the point of the thread is to learn from what happened and not to attack the owner with verbiage. IMO those postings here are inappropriate and not germane to the topic at hand.

That said, we know the divers fine and still do not know what actually happened. We might have that chance now because the diver made it, does anybody know the facts and can they post them?