Announcing the SubGravity H3 - Powered by SeaBear

[stuartv]

It's interesting that the older Galileos and Lunas had a trimix upgrade. The newer, "improved" versions of these computers do not yet have a trimix upgrade available.

Yep. I suspect @kelemvor is right. They used to have trimix for the Galilieo. Has anyone ever seen anyone actually diving with trimix and using a Galileo?

I SO hope they learn the right lesson from that and do not hose up the H3 with their proprietary algorithm and biometric junk. Unfortunately, I have a feeling they are going to. I've had a couple of conversations with some folks somewhat in the know and I suspect part of the delay on their release is taking the time to do just that. Plus time to re-engineer the AI to work with the SP transmitters instead of whatever transmitters SB had developed.

There is also the possibility that they will have 2 versions of the H3, just like they have 2 versions of the Galileo. The more expensive one might have the biometric stuff and the cheaper one not. I could see someone at SP thinking that the same target market that have been buying Galileos would think the H3 is even sexier and so they think they can sell to that market plus bring even more people into it. Recreational divers who want a computer that looks sexy and also gives them street (boat?) cred for having the fanciest computer - and are willing to spend stupid money to have the flashiest arm candy.

Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll have an H3 Advanced (aka Sol) and an H3 Tech (aka Luna) and the Tech model will be what we want, and for a reasonable price (since it doesn't have all that extra "junk" built in). As long as it DOES have AI....

 

[oceancurrent]

In which case, if my H3 breaks, hopefully they'll still let me trade it for an M2 with a transmitter, so I can sell that and buy something decent.

My thinking exactly. Mine has been broken three times already and haven't gotten a working unit since May, so this is a reasonable exit for me. I'd rather take this than wait to see if/when Johnson Outdoors will release a decent SeaBear product, what will be the quality and features, and if they will be willing to provide a way to upgrade. Too much risk

 

[oceancurrent]

By the way, if you are having trouble submitting the form due to an incorrect date format error message such as the one on this screenshot, the format that the form expects is YYYY-MM-DD such as in 2015-12-14. Figured it the hard way since there is no clue in the form or the error message.

 

[tridacna]

Stu - Good lucking selling the M2. You'd be doing better than SP at getting rid of those clunkers. I reckon this is a brilliant scheme devised by SP to dump those boxes of M2s sitting in a warehouse gathering dust. No-one else wants them, that's for sure.

 

[r_servadei]

By the way, if you are having trouble submitting the form due to an incorrect date format error message such as the one on this screenshot, the format that the form expects is YYYY-MM-DD such as in 2015-12-14. Figured it the hard way since there is no clue in the form or the error message.

View attachment 383431

Poorly designed webform - I had the same problem with a Safari web browser . Try a different web browser.

 

[r_servadei]

What I filled out on the Warranty replacement form -

Dear Johnson’s Outdoor

I don't want a replacement Scubapro for my H3 - I only need one screw to replace the one that fell off my H3 for no apparent reason.
I don’t want a cheaper, substandard Scubapro replacement.
I require a Trimix capable dive computer that uses a valid decompression algorithm, not some mysterious variant of the Bühlmann ZHL8.
Did Johnson Outdoor’s buy out an opposing product's company, so that they can replace them with Scubapro products?
If Johnson Outdoor’ s cannot provide an equitable exchange for my H3 , can they at least provide a partial refund so I can put it towards a Trimix computer from Shearwater ( or some other dive computer manufacturer that "look after" their customers , rather than increase their shareholder's returns , or their executive's bonus ) ???

 

[fnog]

Yep. I suspect @kelemvor is right. They used to have trimix for the Galilieo. Has anyone ever seen anyone actually diving with trimix and using a Galileo?

I SO hope they learn the right lesson from that and do not hose up the H3 with their proprietary algorithm and biometric junk. Unfortunately, I have a feeling they are going to. I've had a couple of conversations with some folks somewhat in the know and I suspect part of the delay on their release is taking the time to do just that. Plus time to re-engineer the AI to work with the SP transmitters instead of whatever transmitters SB had developed.

There is also the possibility that they will have 2 versions of the H3, just like they have 2 versions of the Galileo. The more expensive one might have the biometric stuff and the cheaper one not. I could see someone at SP thinking that the same target market that have been buying Galileos would think the H3 is even sexier and so they think they can sell to that market plus bring even more people into it. Recreational divers who want a computer that looks sexy and also gives them street (boat?) cred for having the fanciest computer - and are willing to spend stupid money to have the flashiest arm candy.

Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll have an H3 Advanced (aka Sol) and an H3 Tech (aka Luna) and the Tech model will be what we want, and for a reasonable price (since it doesn't have all that extra "junk" built in). As long as it DOES have AI....

If you want to see people actually diving galileos en masse, including TX divers, come over to France. The sunday morning are not only for going to church, especially for those who live near Marseille. In fact, if you stay over at the Ibis hotel in Antibes, you'll be next doors to the french office of Scubapro, and you can drop by and tell them how you feel. Michael Moore style. There is also a mc'do close-by.

Stu, I think you are too tough on the Lunas. This algorithm and model is clever and validated enough as defacto, even if it stays closed. It came from Uwatec, and scubapro did not give enough hard data about it. That is a cultural and communication problem, not a tech/quality issue. If you really like, I can ask the frenchies for details. It is also possible some data came from COMEX or such secretive IP that is encumbered, and they are not free to disclose it as they like. Oh, BTW, you'll never have any trouble selling a galileo in France. Plenty of potential buyers.

As far as getting a ZHL16B without the anal probes is concerned, I have no idea. You'll have to talk directly to the product dev engineer. If you can't come over to the Ibis hotel of Antipolis, just call and ask for M. Garrison on the scubaprout switchboard. He is one of those brilliant new recruits by Johnson Outdoors.

Galileo/galileo/let me go...

 

[fnog]

Yeap, I had the breaking/falling screw problem twice already along with two other problems. After returning the last H3 for third time to SubGravity in May, they told me that they ran out of working units to send me and have to wait for direction from Johnson Outdoors. Since then the only update I have been getting periodically is that Johnson Outdoors are working on a solution - no further details.

Would be nice if at least Johnson Outdoors would comment on their plans for the successor of the H3 and what they will do to sort out the mess with the slew of dedective H3 units. My sense is that resolving the issues that people are experiencing will take a serious engineering effort and a new model. Pretty much the only sane option for them will be to run an upgrade program of sorts for all existing H3 owners to the new model when it comes out. All we can do at the moment is hold tight and wait. Good thing there are Shearwaters and Oceanics out there that are solid.

Could you please elaborate on the screw and the 2 other problems ?
My wife has a new H3 and I would like to take preventive measures. like tightening and putting a bit of cyano glue on the screw head.
Are those other 2 problems also mechanical ?

If you know the specs of the missing screw, why don't you order it in the smallest possible batch from some online hardware store and have the bill sent to Scubapro ?

 

[fnog]

<snip>rather than increase their shareholder's returns , or their executive's bonus ) ???

Our base was attacked by a giant socialist weasel.

 

[oceancurrent]

Yes, few techies would ever buy the current ScubaPro offerings, which is likely the reason in the first place for the SeaBear acquisition. If they manage to sort out the quality issues plaguing the H3 and add AI, they will have a killer product at their hands that has the potential to offset Shearwater off the tech market (unless they innovate fast and make their H3 equivalent). The interest and stakes are high, point in case in this thread.

As for the screw issue, I won't recommend asking them for a new screw and installing it, even if they consent to the request. The screws are too fragile on this unit and liable to break (mine did twice already). Likely the threads in the cover are damaged too when a screw falls out. If a screw has fallen out, then you can be certain that if you put a new one in, it will either not hold or fall out soon after. The only way to solve this is to redesign the screws altogether.

But that's not the only known issue of the H3 either. Press a bit too hard on one of the two buttons and the touch sensor on the inside will dislodge from the logic board leaving your H3 bricked. The LED screen tends to fail with dead pixels. And, it looks like, the battery may not be able to charge after some time of use or if you let the H3 sit for too long. So, pick your poison!

Look folks, Johnson Outdoors's current offer is not an abysmally terrible deal in my opinion. In fact it's probably a win win: they get rid of the "clunkers", as you nicely called them, and the H3 owners get something that has more value than the bricked H3. You and I won't buy an M2 for sure, but there are lots of non-techies out there who would. Dump the biometrics fluff, which is as easy as not using the heart rate monitor belt, and it will be a straight forward ZHL8 computer. (I am pretty sure that all that ScubaPro are doing is adding adaptive conservatism to ZHL8 driven by the biometrics data - anything else would be hard to defend.). In any case, the M2 with transmitter currently retails at $1,500! Not sure who would ever pay this price for it, but sure as hell you can sell a new unit at $700+ and recover most of what you paid for the H3 in the first place even if the M2 warranty is nil due to the resale. I'd take that and move on over arguing with Johnson Outdoors for my rights and their plans for the H3.