Angela Orlich Testimony

[grassyknoll]

1-Ms. Orlich's statement at this point is only an allegation, if you choose to believe or disbeive her based solely on her statement that is your right, I usually like to wait to hear both side sof a story before rendering judgement, but heck, that is just me.
2-Yes, I would allow my daughter and or wife to dive with the "instructor" as long as he checked out as a dive proffesional. Why? Because I like to think that being considered innocent until proven guilty sure beats the hell out of being considered guilty until proven innocent (feel free to disagree if you wish). But just look at the tragedy that a rush to judgement causes, all the lives ruined in cases such as the Richard Jewell/OLympics bombing or the McMartin pre-school fiasco.
3-There are some "interesting" items in her account I just can't seem to get my head around. I see biting a breast as a pretty tough manuever given the amount of gear you would need to manuever around to get to the bitee, not to mention that means as the biter you would need to spit your reg to do that biting at some point (not something I would want to do when struggling with a victim and likely breathing heavy from the exertion). Also, if he was trying to shut off her air wouldn't he likely have succeeded? Isn't grasping the tank valve taught as a control method for panicked divers in Rescue classes (although, since I have a hard time seeing my own tank valve when diving, I'm not grasping how she knew he was trying to shut off her air?).

Just questions.....

 

[mikerault]

I can maybe reconcile everything including the "accidental" top removal with a possibly paniced diver and the attempts of an instructor to keep her from becoming a DCI missile, however, if there were infact bitemarks on her breast as stated then I don't believe his last resort was patching on with his teeth...

I have seen BCDs which accentuate the female form, at least topside, so I don't discount it.

 

[MoxisPilot]

1-Ms. Orlich's statement at this point is only an allegation, if you choose to believe or disbeive her based solely on her statement that is your right, I usually like to wait to hear both side sof a story before rendering judgement, but heck, that is just me.
2-Yes, I would allow my daughter and or wife to dive with the "instructor" as long as he checked out as a dive proffesional. Why? Because I like to think that being considered innocent until proven guilty sure beats the hell out of being considered guilty until proven innocent (feel free to disagree if you wish). But just look at the tragedy that a rush to judgement causes, all the lives ruined in cases such as the Richard Jewell/OLympics bombing or the McMartin pre-school fiasco.
3-There are some "interesting" items in her account I just can't seem to get my head around. I see biting a breast as a pretty tough manuever given the amount of gear you would need to manuever around to get to the bitee, not to mention that means as the biter you would need to spit your reg to do that biting at some point (not something I would want to do when struggling with a victim and likely breathing heavy from the exertion). Also, if he was trying to shut off her air wouldn't he likely have succeeded? Isn't grasping the tank valve taught as a control method for panicked divers in Rescue classes (although, since I have a hard time seeing my own tank valve when diving, I'm not grasping how she knew he was trying to shut off her air?).

Just questions.....

Amen.

Jeez, I didn't even think about the instructer having to spit out his reg to bite!

 

[mikerault]

As far as the tank valve...in rescue class where do you grab a panicked diver? The tank valve!

Mike

 

[Kingpatzer]

Could the "bite marks" be a finger nail digging into her from an instructor trying to either gain control of a paniced diver or trying to seperate himself from her?

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

Angela Orlich - Cruise Ship Sexual Assault Victim




This guy was her instructor..........

I am no lawyer, but what bothers me about the story linked above is the phrase "a shore excusion sold and promoted by" the cruise line. The ire of this person seems as directed at the cruise line as it is at the person allegedly involved. This phrase is legalese, an attempt to link the cruise line to what happened on a shore excursion. In order for the cruise line to be liable, some connection to the shore event must me made, i.e., the line "endorsed" this operator.

Otherwise, suing the cruise line for what happened is like getting beat up in a bar and suing the taxi comapny that took you there.

Suing some dive operation in Mexico for damages over a molestation attempt that resulted in no physical injury is going to go NOWHERE. First, they likely have no money or insurance for such things. You could win a billion dollars, but if they are broke, so what? second, only American juries are suckers for the "I have no injuries but I do see a counselor once a week so I deserve millions" approach to torts. I doubt a Mexican jury will be so inclined, but I could be wrong.

I am not saying something didn't happen, who knows? If it did, it was reprehensible. but when people start peppering their stories with tort-friendly language, I get suspicious.

By the way, if you were going to molest someone, why shut off their air? Isn't surfacing with a dead body a little suspicious? And, if that were true, this isn't simple sexual assault. It is attempted murder.

This all seems very odd to me. Am I off base?

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

Incidentally, a cursory search of this topic on Google brought me quickly to a Miami law firm that specializes in suing cruise lines, with specific advice, the story of this particular incident as an example (on the law firm's website no less!), and the fact that the law firm also participated (???instigated) the congressional hearings in question...

call me a cynic, but I think sharks WERE involved..the land-based variety

 

[grassyknoll]

Coming soon-Padi specialty Submerged Self Defense...

Could the "bite marks" be a finger nail digging into her from an instructor trying to either gain control of a paniced diver or trying to seperate himself from her?

My thoughts exactly, I see this as the likely scenario, panic and the instructor trying to prevent a runaway ascent.

As far as the tank valve...in rescue class where do you grab a panicked diver? The tank valve!

Right! If he has her valve he likely would have had easy control. I just don't see 30 to 60 fsw as a really good place to stage an assault.

 

[tcmits]

It is unlikely that this will be tried in a US court since the incident happened in Mexico and Royal Caribbean is not a US based business. While concept of "Innocent until proven guilty" is the lynch-pin of the US legal system, such is not the case in other countries. For example, in France, you are guilty until proven innocent. I'm not sure what the case is in Mexico.

 

[NancyLynn]

If he has her valve he likely would have had easy control. I just don't see 30 to 60 fsw as a really good place to stage an assault.

Try to convince this guy that underwater is not a really good place to stage an assault:

>>Jeff Doland was arrested by authorities with the Attorney General’s Child Predator CyberCrime Unit after he flew to Miami, believing he was going to meet a mother of two girls, ages nine and 12 years old, and would pay the woman $550 to forcibly submerge the children under water until they became unconscious.

<snip>

Doland, of Uniontown, Ohio, approached the “woman” online and told her that he would pay her to allow him to dunk the girls, describing dunking as forcibly submerging someone under water until he or she is generally unconscious, then raising the person out of the water. He claimed he “liked watching the bubbles” and went on to send the undercover agent explicit images of child torture as examples of what he proposed to do to the two young children.<<
News Release - Ohio Man Arrested, Charged with Attempting to Purchase Two Children for Sexual Torture

I know nothing about the Orlich case, other than what I have read in this thread - I do, however, know that individuals who sexually assault other individuals often have an exaggerated sense of invulnerability that permits them to think they can get away with all sorts of things that seem objectively stupid.