And another sale gone, another one down... another one bites the dust!

[Genesis]

Perhaps the market should be telling you, from all of the online sales, that the service and advice from LDS's in a lot of cases is not worth the price.


Give that man a CIIIIIGGGGAAAARRRRRR!!!!!

(Just don't smoke it - they're bad for 'ya....)

 

[djhall]

Someone mentioned Costco earlier in this post. Interestingly enough, Costco DOES sell scuba gear... sort of. Here in Northern California, Costco stores have a traveling display of discount scuba equipment which visits different stores each weekend during the summer months. Unfortunately, most of the gear is Dacor... but it may be an early sign of things to come. Scuba gear from www.costco.com???????

In reading many of the posts defending local dive shops need to sell at higher prices than LeisurePro, I can't help getting the feeling that these are equally good reasons for the dive stores to quit or change the nature of their business as they are for divers to pay more to keep them in business. Many small LDS splitting the limited market results in greater cost to dive consumers. A few large regional dive shops can sell higher volumes at lower markups. It is just a fact of retailing... WalMart wins and the small shops go under. No amount of "intangibles" or appeals to customers to pay more to help keep them in business will keep the WalMarts of the world from winning in the end.

I personally don't see the LDS as anything more than a scuba instruction, service, and rental station. Other than small items such as fin straps, repair parts, defogger, and such, I do not see any reason for them to sell equipment at prices that will support the overhead of a retail shop, or for me to purchase it from them. If that means the LDS will go out of business.... okay. Someone will provide instruction, repair, and air fills from a tiny hole in the wall shop at reasonable prices. I can always drive to Sacramento or San Francisco on the rare occasion that I want to buy major pieces of equipment and I don't want to purchase online.

Of course, I find it helps everything when I let the LDS know I have this attitude in advance. They don't expect me to purchase from them, and they distribute their time and attention (or lack of it) appropriately. On the whole, I find most of the staff are happy to deal with me knowing they will be servicing whatever gear I eventually purchase and making sales of air, instruction, rental gear, retractors, etc. to support my miscellaneous needs.

Just my $0.02 on the matter.

 

[o2scuba]

WOW

I can't beleive this one is still going.

Someone made a comment about it being impossibele to compete with Wal-Mart, Costco. That they will win in the end.

I disagree. It's all a matter of "target audience". Don't try to compete with them. Keep your prices the same and offer excellent service. There are pleanty of people looking at "value" rather than price. Don't blame the people who think with their wallet (keep in mind where most of these people keep their wallets-back pocket next to where they have their heads).

I've seen a lot of dive centers that offer cheap training with the hopes that people will buy equipment in order to offset the loss. Mistake numero uno! Charge accordingly for training so as to make money.. If they buy gear BONUS.


One lds in my area offers consultation for gear shoppers. Instead of taking time from the one person watching the store, appointments are made so that someone is there specifically for each buyer. They are charged $25 for this time. That money is taken off the price if they buy. If they don't, no loss as the time was paid for. It works quite well. Numbers are up & up every year since this began. Sure, some people say, "what, I'm not going to pay you give me a sales pitch". but these are the ones who aren't worth the trouble.

Also allowing people to "Demo" gear by renting it. If they buy within 30 days of the rental, the rental price is taken off the price.

I do the same in my construction business NO FREE ESTIMATES. I go to someones home, look at the job, evaluate, make a recommendation. If I do all this for free, they often get the advise, then hire joe shmoe to do the work. If they pay me for my time, they already have an investment in ME. Since I started doing this 4 years ago my number of "lost jobs" has gone from about %50 to less than %10. A lot less wasted time. More profit.

Genesis,
I'm sure you could rant and rave on this for quite some time. I suggest you save your breath as I am laughing at customers like you (all the way to the bank). Your "every customer counts" and "customer is always right" theories DIED IN THE EIGHTIES.

Mistake numero dose: free discover SCUBA pool sessions. Charge for this experience, then deduct the cost if they sign up for OW class within 30 days. If it is free, the perception is that there is no value. Also free DS encourages parents to drop off their kids for free babysitting.

Make more profit from a smaller crowd. This allows more time to give the paying customers better service.

Works for me. This way If people think I'm a jerk, at least I am a jerk making money, instead of a starving jerk.

 

[Genesis]

It's all a matter of "target audience". Don't try to compete with them. Keep your prices the same and offer excellent service. There are pleanty of people looking at "value" rather than price.

Gee, wasn't that the issue originally?

A LDS that decided to stick to their price, but didn't offer anything I couldn't (and ultimately won't!) get online?

Yeah, I think that was the point of the original post.

What's amazing is how it was missed - or was that intentionally ignored?

 

[Pez de Diablo]

Costco in Alberta also sells dive gear during a few select times of the year. However, they also partner with a LDS, who provides the warrenty and handles any training issues.

They have partnered with diferent shops as well.

 

[ScubaDon]

I logged onto my email today and had 13 messages from scubaboard about new posts to this topic.

I was in Walmart yesterday and looking in their sporting goods section they offer several Dacor masks and snorkels. Are they testing the waters so to speak?

Took a look at Johnson Outdoors financials this morning and they have posted a 3 million dollar dip in sales over last year and more than 12 million less than 2000. Is it possible that people are making a slow move away from Scuba Pro. I know this is a long shot and couldn't find any information on specifically on Scupa Pro but just a thought.

Did look at the Scuba Pro web site and under the consumer alert section http://www.scubapro.com/consumeralert/consumeralert.asp
they put the normal disclaimer that if you don't purchase from an authorized dealer they nor any of their dealers is resonsible for the waranty, BUT if you purchase from an authorized dealer outside of the US or Canada the warranty is valid but not the free parts for lifetime. Not a big deal from what everyone on the board has said, $5-$7 for parts for the annual service.

Sounds like Scuba Pro IS starting to see that there are LOTS of sales to be had on the internet.

 

[jbm]

SMKChef once bubbled...


$7.00 for a tube of goo.

Anyone know what's in there? One of my LDS' said they paid people to spit in the bottles.

Defogger sweatshops????

 

[metridium]

o2scuba wrote...
I've seen a lot of dive centers that offer cheap training with the hopes that people will buy equipment in order to offset the loss. Mistake numero uno! Charge accordingly for training so as to make money.. If they buy gear BONUS.

That's a good idea we've discussed before, and I agree with it.

o2scuba wrote...
Also allowing people to "Demo" gear by renting it. If they buy within 30 days of the rental, the rental price is taken off the price.

Sounds good in theory, though I wonder about the costs and scheduling involved in practice.

o2scuba wrote...
Mistake numero dose: free discover SCUBA pool sessions. Charge for this experience, then deduct the cost if they sign up for OW class within 30 days. If it is free, the perception is that there is no value. Also free DS encourages parents to drop off their kids for free babysitting.

Sounds plausible.

o2scuba wrote...
There are pleanty of people looking at "value" rather than price. Don't blame the people who think with their wallet (keep in mind where most of these people keep their wallets-back pocket next to where they have their heads).

Sounds like the 'pricing is paramount' customers are interfering with someone's sense of entitlement. Else why the offensive tone?

FWIW, "value" can equal "pricing". Or are you the type who pays premium prices for commodities?

As for your anatomical analogy, it seems misplaced, given the wisdom of the old saying: "A fool and his money are soon parted."

o2scuba wrote...
One lds in my area offers consultation for gear shoppers. Instead of taking time from the one person watching the store, appointments are made so that someone is there specifically for each buyer. They are charged $25 for this time. That money is taken off the price if they buy. If they don't, no loss as the time was paid for. It works quite well. Numbers are up & up every year since this began. Sure, some people say, "what, I'm not going to pay you give me a sales pitch". but these are the ones who aren't worth the trouble.

Riiiiiight.

Talking with the staff of a new shop is my way of checking it out to see if they're on the level and hopefully competent enough to entrust with my service work. Think I'm going to pay for that 'privilege'?

After listening to so many shops' lies, BS, and ignorance on the subject of gear and pricing over the years, there's no way I'm going to pay some salespuke for more of the same.

Of course, I've only gone through ~$7500 worth of gear, so I must not be "worth the trouble".

 

[yknot]

Big reason I looked at ScubaPro parent was to try and acertain their mindset. Very small companies can appear global if they market themselves properly. Slick brochures, etc. If you broke ScubaPro out of Johnson Outdoor, how big would they be? Could they fight legal action? Interesting also that the other product lines from Johnson Outdoor have no relation to ScubaPro other than being outdoor rec products. I wondered if the reps for their other lines forbid online sales, etc. Even if a large deep pocketed conglomerate owned ScubaPro that doesn't mean they would be in a more defensible position. Large companies are more inclined to cut their losses when dealing with a cottage industry like scuba gear, especially when it does't affect their core business. Just think AMF/Harley-Davidson.

 

[SMKChef]

Here I am innocently reading "Deep Descent: Adventure and Death Diving the Andrea Doria" and I come upon this:

Page 70, "The shop was a magnet for wreck divers and bargain hunters since Harvey was famous for discounting dive gear, an unheard-of practice given diving's limited market and razor-thin profit margins."

Drop the prices and they will come.