Analysis vs Condolences (split from CSSP thread)

[Boogie711]

Every now and then, I wonder why I put people on my "ignore" list.

So I check. And then discover why all over again. There needs to be a 'basic English grammar' test for Scubaboard.

 

[Night Diver]

This isn't as simple as speculation versus not. Isn't it just about maintaining a normal level of human decorum in discussing fatal accidents? For example, based on the husband-wife incident referred to in one of the underlying threads, I could observe fairly accurately that a diver who becomes incapacitated underwater pretty much has one chance at life, and that is if he is brought safely to the surface by his buddy.

Now if I continue on and "speculate" that this diver would have lived had his wife brought him up, I have assumed a bunch of facts that may or may not be true. And if I further criticize his wife for not bringing him up, I have built on my speculation and now I have leveled my criticism at a presumably grieving widow who may or may not deserve it, but of course I have no idea what happened there underwater. Which is where I think I would start to implicate the concerns of those who caution against "speculation." Some people will go down those roads, others won't.

But I might elect to use a scenario like this to explain to a group of students the importance of rescue training and reliance on a dive partner. And if so I think we could be learning from the situation. Frankly I am not sure that "lesson" would be different if it ultimately turns out the man died underwater from a massive heart attack, or that his wife tried but couldn't "rescue" him because he was panicking, or any number of explanations.

 

[Kim]

... the purpose of accident analysis is to identify things that can be improved by finding the hazards - not the fault. As such speculation about peoples actions and in whatever form suggesting blame or culpability (even with denials like "but I don't mean to.......") should form no part of it.

The reason I wrote this was to remind people what is in the sticky at the beginning of the Accidents & Incidents forum. I would ask everyone to re-read that sticky. As it stands now speculation and guesses about real incidents are not allowed and posts that do that have always been pulled and will be in the future. The idea of a new, opt-in, forum where people can discuss what and how they like may be valid. If people want that then I'd advise to start a new thread in the Suggestions forum to make some of the points that have been made in this thread.

 

[Squalus]

:06:

 

[snuggle]

charleyt i wasnt and am not calling anyone a liar..i was using it as an example...if people want to speculate about something then maybe they should have there own section..not a bad idea..and boogie if and i say if that was aimed towards me well what can i say...

 

[wolf eel]

[snuggle wolf eel ..you talk alot about facts and the way that they are reported in newspapers..tell me something why would a newpaper release a coroners report and post differently then whats in the report?they wouldnt thats why...and since when is respect for the dead silly...and you talk about moving on???speculation is nothing but a waste of time and it doesnt really amount to any more answers..it just adds more questions then anything else.]

Hi I am not trying to feed your fire. People like you really do scare me !!If you beleive everything you read in the paper no wonder we are in such a sad state of affairs in the world. They make mistakes like everybody they are also in the biss of selling news. I just read an article in the paper that said Arafat is gay and is dieing of AIDS is that true ? I also read how one group reported that they had found WMD in some country um did they find those yet ?. I never said they would not say what was in the coroners report but do they post the coroners report in your local paper ? or do they just say a couple of words about what they just read themselves ? Also we had one of our Olympic swimmers in the paper about how he was abused by some coppers in Greece they reported it happened before his event and that is why he did not do so good. OMG to think thats why we did not get that gold. Oh they made a mistake it was after the event !!! In my case they reported I was there an unable to respond oh yea I was in Vancouver at the time and he was 60 miles north. The news papers are the last place to find the truth they love storries.

[well lets put it this way ..would you listen to someone who is a pathological liar??theres your asnwer..speculation is a bit like lying]

You really don't not believe this do you ?

Cheers
Derek

 

[wolf eel]

[snuggle .if people want to speculate about something then maybe they should have there own section..not a bad idea.]

Um this is what this split is for

 

[Kim]

Um this is what this split is for

Yes it is, but it's only really about the one incident. If people want to discuss things like this in future incidents some people seem to think that a seperate forum might be the way to go.

 

[wolf eel]

[Kim

Yes it is, but it's only really about the one incident. If people want to discuss things like this in future incidents some people seem to think that a seperate forum might be the way to go.]

Yes Kim I realize this. The point at this time was only this thread but they (SB)have already been asked or suggested to have its own forum for this reason.

Cheers
Derek

 

[wolf eel]

Hi

For any of you that do dive this site is their no current?. I must admit I have thought about this a bit. She must have been in some control as she was able to direct a diver to her husband. It's odd that she may not have tried to hit the power lift button.
Cheers
Derek