An observation about divers

[MXGratefulDiver]

And for those that forgot that all of life need not be a competition to see if you're better than others, there's DIR.

Ah man ... don't you ever get tired of cliches? Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're demonstrating the exact same behavior you're so fond of complaining about in others?

It would be different if you had a clue what you're talking about ... but it's so obvious that you don't.

If you peddle that sort of ignorance to your students, I feel sorry for them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tomboyy]

Ah man ... don't you ever get tired of cliches? Doesn't it ever occur to you that you're demonstrating the exact same behavior you're so fond of complaining about in others?

It would be different if you had a clue what you're talking about ... but it's so obvious that you don't.

If you peddle that sort of ignorance to your students, I feel sorry for them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Nice...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Nice...

I've watched Kingpatzer for years whine and complain that people misrepresent and berate PADI ... and for those same years he actively misrepresents and berates another agency that he clearly has no knowledge about, except for the cliches he helps to promote on the Internet.

There's a term for people like that.

His behavior not only makes him come across as ignorant and hypocritical, but it reinforces the stereotypes about his own agency that he's so fond of complaining about.

In effect, he IS the very sort of instructor that the original post in this thread describes ... the sort that I tell any prospective student of scuba diving to stay away from. Closed mindedness is a disservice to anyone interested in learning how to scuba dive ... no matter what "style" you choose to adopt ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lobzilla]

And for those that forgot that all of life need not be a competition to see if you're better than others, there's DIR.

That stupid remark in light of Kingpatzer's previous experiences and comments is indeed a very sad story.

New members or SBers that are sitting on the fence about DIR or failure-based training may want to read the following posts and judge by themselves how poignant NWGratefuldiver's remarks about the underlying attitude are.

Who we really compete against on every dive
We all do !
What we should do
What we actually could do after we realize that mainstream training is inadequate for challenging situations
How you can have wicked fun while learning skills and habits that are actually useful when the solid matter hits the fan

'nuff said. Gotta pack for the Fundies starting on Monday.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I've watched Kingpatzer for years whine and complain that people misrepresent and berate PADI ... and for those same years he actively misrepresents and berates another agency that he clearly has no knowledge about, except for the cliches he helps to promote on the Internet.

I don't believe I've said one word about the quality of DIR training. And, to the best of my knowledge, DIR is not an agency.

I'll say again what I said up-thread: if more of the DIR crowd would show themselves to be people who just love diving and want to have fun doing it, they wouldn't have earned the reputation they have.

I'm sorry my attempt at humor didn't amuse you.

 

[TSandM]

Kingpatzer, it didn't strike me as humor, either; but maybe some of us are a little raw about some of the stereotypes.

Mr. Cacharadon, if you have taken the class and concluded that it was a solution to a problem you didn't have, that's a totally valid conclusion for you. I just wanted to find out if you were making judgments of something about which you really knew very little, as is all too common when people are talking about GUE and DIR diving.

 

[gitterdun]

I'll say again what I said up-thread: if more of the DIR crowd would show themselves to be people who just love diving and want to have fun doing it, they wouldn't have earned the reputation they have.

I'm sorry my attempt at humor didn't amuse you.

I guess you haven't seen any of the "We Go Down" videos, my blog, or our recent "Sanked 'Em" parody.


Sent from my Intergalactic iPhone

 

[Lobzilla]

I guess you haven't seen any of the "We Go Down" videos, my blog, or our recent "Sanked 'Em" parody.


Sent from my Intergalactic iPhone

I stumbled across the "We Go Down" videos on Youtube a couple of weeks ago and am glad you guys are on SB.

You rock!!! Both in the skills and in the fun department. (Could there be a correlation? Nah, probably just a coincidence )

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't believe I've said one word about the quality of DIR training. And, to the best of my knowledge, DIR is not an agency.

No you haven't ... your style has always been more toward attacking the personalities of the divers, not their skills.

I'm amazed you don't see the problem with that.

I'll say again what I said up-thread: if more of the DIR crowd would show themselves to be people who just love diving and want to have fun doing it, they wouldn't have earned the reputation they have.

Mostly they've earned that reputation from people like you ... who insist on repeating stereotypes about things you don't understand.

I'm sorry my attempt at humor didn't amuse you.

Ignorance isn't funny ... particularly coming from an instructor.

And I'm just gonna point something out to you ... I don't dive DIR. I've taken a few GUE classes and workshops, and affiliated myself with a GUE shop for a while ... so I know something about it. I'm also a solo diver, which is about as anathema to the DIR approach as you can get. And yet every year, when I get on The Peace with a couple dozen of my DIR friends, strap on my little aluminum buddy, and step off the boat without a teammate, not one DIR diver on that boat gives me grief about it. Ironically, the only people who have ever given me a hard time about solo diving are my non-DIR friends, who've been taught that you should always dive with a buddy. So ... to use your logic ... who's being judgmental and "sucking the fun out of diving"? The truth is, there are judgmental people representing every agency and every style of diving out there ... because it isn't someone's training that makes them that way ... it's their personality. And no agency trains people to have monolithic personalities.

So I'm not promoting DIR ... I'm promoting telling the truth. What I've found over the years is that those who speak the loudest against DIR ... or PADI ... or any of those other tiresome subjects we see on SB all the time ... are speaking from ignorance and promoting an agenda of fear. It usually turns out that they're insecure about their own choices, and therefore need to put someone else's down to make themselves feel better. I see you as one of those people.

It would be helpful if you put some qualifiers to your comments, like ... "I have no actual experience with DIR, but my opinion is" ... so that people would understand where you're coming from. You're entitled to express your opinion. And I'm equally entitled to point out that, on this particularl topic, you don't know what you're talking about.

To state that DIR divers don't love diving and don't have fun doing it is one of the stupidest comments I continually read on ScubaBoard. A significant percentage of my diving friends are DIR ... and I've yet to meet one who doesn't dive purely for the joy of it.

Everybody's different ... and everybody expresses their joy in different ways. So try judging people based on their personalities ... rather than their training. It's what you keep demanding of those who come in here with criticisms about the agency you teach for, after all ... and your objections to them would have a lot more validity if you didn't turn around and emulate their behavior.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[White Knight]

Not a question, and not to start a flame but I feel very disturbed about my recent experiences:

I believe I have an open mind and that I believe there is no such thing as too much training or having too much knowledge about a subject, and in this case, diving. After being certified as an Open Water Diver, I continued my education and on this very forum, found out about "Hogarthian", "DIR", "GUE", "UTD". First impressions from fellow board members are that "these group of divers" have a "superior than thou" mentality. That did not stop me to continue my research into it. I cannot help but feel very impressed with their level of skills as seen on youtube.

After making many phone calls and weighing between what is financially feasible and what is convenient, I decided to meet with AG and Jeff of UTD. I was apprehensive about meeting them but I was introduced to a group of the friendliest divers. Contrary to what was being speculated, neither AG nor Jeff has a "superior" mentality. In fact they accepted my level of experience for what it is and provided me far more information than I can handle. I then decided to join UTD in their essentials to improve my diving.

I announced my decisions to take the UTD essentials to my course directors, and what I got was "do what you want, but you have to know its about being comfortable with your own gear and not follow them blindly. They have a very closed mindset..." type of conversation. Another discussion with another instructor from another recreation agency, a MSDT mind you, yields an advice to "stay as far away from them as possible because they are rigid and militant; they take the joy out of diving". And yet another from the same agency tells me "Ha, why would you even bother? If you want to improve your diving, I can teach you and we have many good instructors here...".

Surprising, the very people who are supposed to be open-minded totally disregard another "style" without even trying to understand what it is all about; and yet the supposedly closed-minded group welcomed me with open arms and patiently discussed what I need to do and why I need to do it without once bashing someone else.

I'm not sure why I am even writing this, but I figured its a great place to rant. Seriously people, we need to open our minds and see for yourself instead of just going with hearsays. That said, I am stoked about doing my very first dive, DIR style, in about 2 weeks.

*end of rant

Now you understand the orgin of religion....Let's all kill each other in the name of the same God. Apple vs PC, Pepsi vs Coke, republican vs democrat--don't mean to rant either, but it isn't a SCUBA issue, its a mankind issue. Still, I like your point. It is just much broader than you might have imagined.