An industry that is in decline

[JohnF]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
Still kicking the horse, I see.

I didn't kick him. I'm not even sure I didn't agree with him there. 8)

JohnF

 

[PhotoTJ]

...should start a new forum, "Why my LDS bites!"
This horse is dead, mummified, and has been beaten to dust. I don't see anyone attempting to fix the problem, nor opening a dive shop. Either shop at LP, or shop at your LDS. But why re-hash the debate, over and over and over...ad nausium.

(By the way, the above question is retorical, I neither expect, nor want an answer. Were I a Mod, I'd close this thread due to redundancy, and start the above mentioned forum.)

 

[-hh]

mer once bubbled...

Participation/Retention Decline? Picking up and the sport then dropping out

I'm not sure if things have really gotten any worse in this regards. From the various references that I've been able to glean, the industry has roughly a 70% drop-out rate (Active:Certified ratio), and its been at this very bad "Yield" rate for many years.

(BTW, IIRC, the definition of "active" on this is like a ~dozen dives/year...not at all hardcore).

In any event, this very large participation drop-out rate means that there's an industry desperation for 'new blood', and with the aging of the Baby Boomers, they need to bring a larger % of their target demographic into the fold just to tread water.

The alternative is to expand the demographic, which we've seen happen with the driving down of the minimum certification age.

Another alternative/wrinkle is to change your demographic's buying habits, and this is what's been behind he rapid embracement and aggressive marketing of everything "Tech", because the Manufacturers have learned that this audience buys more products - ergo, spends more money per capita.


Economy

Agreed. Discretionary hobbies - - and expensive travel (WWW) are casualties. The good news is that hard times generally improves the value of such services (I have a reservation at a hotel room in the Caymans for only $60/night!).


Manufactuers and Mark-up & LDS vs WWW

While attempts to fix retail prices from the manufacturers do have an influence on this, it is not really the ultimate "Evil Source" of all of these problems whose elimination will make everything rosy...

IMO, people think that this is a huge problem, but its not unique to scuba: its a problem that all small businesses and small manufacturers have. When the volume of product going out the door is low, the per-unit "cut" of Overhead costs that have to be applied to each one is going to be large. It costs money to keep the lights and heat turned on, and a guy behind the cash register.

The bottom line is that even a small, expensive local business can make it, if they provide the extra value to their customer to differentiate themselves from the "Big Box" and/or Internet Stores.

It is simply more pressure for them to "Evolve or Die", and part of the question is if we really want things that you can't get via WWW such as personal OW training to lose its LDS financial support and thereby have to pick up its fully burdened cost of providing that service to the customer's doorstep.


AND MY POINT IS: Customer Service

The ULTIMATE Bottom line: Dive shops are not evil, their prices are the way they are due to economics, and in the long run a shop that cares about the sport, me, and earning my trust more than it cares about winning my money, will in the long run end up earning my business.

Exactly. It may cost more dollars to support a local small business, but as often as not, that investment is returned to the community in one way or another. For example, if your local town has a Police/Fire Dive Rescue Unit, odds are that the LDS is helping them out...


-hh

 

[JohnF]

There is one easier, less stressful option for you.

JohnF

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
...should start a new forum, "Why my LDS bites!"
This horse is dead, mummified, and has been beaten to dust. I don't see anyone attempting to fix the problem, nor opening a dive shop. Either shop at LP, or shop at your LDS. But why re-hash the debate, over and over and over...ad nausium.

(By the way, the above question is retorical, I neither expect, nor want an answer. Were I a Mod, I'd close this thread due to redundancy, and start the above mentioned forum.)

 

[jrg]

Genesis once bubbled...


............One of two possible bad outcomes:

1. The new diver comes in...........and realizes that the $2,000 he spent on the hardware came to $1,100 at LP. He now feels taken for the other $900...........and the relationship he had with the shop has been irrevocably damaged.........

2. The new diver comes in...........draws a crappy instructor, who thinks that buoyancy control is a letter puzzle rather than an essential skill...............

So Genesis, which one were you?

 

[VTernovski]

Industry is in decline because

1) local dove shop owners are a$$-holes.
2) Manuf. fix prices and play with warranty restrictions.
3) Agencies like PADI teach bad habits (Drysuit certification specialy - "Use your dryusit for bouyancy, not your BC. BC is used only on the surface" --- what???)

 

[neil chambers]

:doctor:
well fellow divers as descusions go this could be the most serious one of them all ........ but who for us [the divers] or them the dive shops
as i am not from the U.S i am not familiar with the the way it works there but let me give you a different perspective on the diving industry......
first of all the dive shops around the world need us not the other way round and as you said i am now filling my own tanks etc. here in europe this has become a defining moment because dive shops are for the tourist and instructor courses the rest is diving clubs and and it is not hard to find a non profit making dive club in your area , this cuts out any hard sell or being riped of due to the fact that the instructors are allowed to tell the trueth and give good sound advice on what , where , and WHEN to buy your own equipment !!!!!!! the dive shops also rely on a captive market and only venture outside this with a small budget on advertising........ well there is none of this for a dive club because of the best way and most sucsesful way is word of mouth ! lets face it divers love to gossip or complain about thier experiances and the figures show clearly when some one walks into a dive shop it is because it was recamended to them by a friend [ emagine how fast a dive club grows ] rite now at this present moment in time the fastest growing dive culture is Irland out growing the rest of the world by approx 30 %..... its very simple remove the dive shops from the equation and the people come flooding into the club and this will creat a snow ball effect .
PADI NAUI etc are victims of there own success as are all companies that use pyramid selling eventually they peak and find a [as you say ] natural level as a company the only thing left for them to do is merge PAUI who nows but it is on the cards after all they are in buisness not like us who are in it for pleasure , funny is it not > started by two friends who loved to dive and a crazy frenchman.
The dive industry is not in decline it is simply changing direction , if you will EVOLVING after all it is only 30 or so years old put that against say golf and you find that it is still a baby
The answer i would sugest is to lead the way and nurture and educate it, rather than critise it ..... the great leaders of the world did this and had they not, we would still be fighting amonst the clans .
Talking is one thing acting is another

 

[neil chambers]

NO AMOUNT OF LEARNING CAN CURE STUPIDITY


For you to make that statement leaves everyone else only with one question ........ whos stupid and we would also sumise the answer to be YOU [lubold8431]
FACT. EDUCATION IS THE ONLY WAY FORWARD other wise you would still be living in a cave , come to think of it are you ?
think before you speak and make sure you close the barn door after you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:boom:

 

[WVMike]

neil chambers once bubbled...
:doctor:
let me give you a different perspective on the diving industry......
first of all the dive shops around the world need us not the other way round and as you said i am now filling my own tanks etc. here in europe this has become a defining moment because dive shops are for the tourist and instructor courses the rest is diving clubs and and it is not hard to find a non profit making dive club in your areaTalking is one thing acting is another

Neil,

Can you give a little info on how the dive clubs work. It sounds like they have compressors, can you also buy your gear through the club?

How much are dues to join? and anything else you can add, sounds interesting.

mike

 

[neil chambers]

it could not be simpler remove the sales bs from a ldc and you have a club yes the club has expenses and needs to recover them but does not need to make a profit after all it is run by divers for divers there in lies the quality that you are obviuosly looking for