An Attempt at Understanding DIR

[Cave Bum]

Unfortunately this topic is the OP trying to understand DIR, not where the configuration started or if there are other safe ways to dive. Although I have the feeling the OP due to his negative feelings on DIR just wants to debate the minutiae.

The OP, in his original post, said he was trying to understand why DIR folks didn't seem to think it was 'safe' to dive with others trained differently. My post spoke directly to that point.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Unfortunately this topic is the OP trying to understand DIR, not where the configuration started or if there are other safe ways to dive. Although I have the feeling the OP due to his negative feelings on DIR just wants to debate the minutiae.

Yes, I have a negative attitude towards DIR to some degree. Fostered largely by my local community. And while I recognize that that community is not representative of all, or even necessarily the majority of DIR members, I still come to the table with the experiences I have had.

But to your non ad hominum point: isn't the devil in the details?

My dives are planned, including contingency procedures. My gear configuration and my buddies are well thought out to the type of diving we do, we practice basic skills and safety procedures and so on. We even include many bits of gear and configuration that are more or less part of the DIR gear requirements.

But in no way would be considered to be diving DIR.

From the outside looking in, and reading the Fundamentals book, all I can find that is uniquely DIR is about the gear configuration, and standardized gases. Something that is true of many other groups as well.

Yet within DIR there's a remarkable tendency to point out that someone is a DIR diver. Something not seen to such a degree with other agencies. Along with a contention that those who are not diving DIR are unsafe to one degree or another.

Outside of gear, what is uniquely DIR beyond the assertion that DIR is a holistic system, and therefore safer, and every other system isn't?

 

[Teamcasa]

Unfortunately this topic is the OP trying to understand DIR, not where the configuration started or if there are other safe ways to dive. Although I have the feeling the OP due to his negative feelings on DIR just wants to debate the minutiae.

Minutiae is what makes DIR more than just a unique diving concept.

DIR training and standardized gear configurations makes the well trained diver safer and just as importantly, a safer diver to dive with in confined/deep/technical dive locations.

The nitpicking starts when DIR divers tout that DIR diving is the best/only safe way to dive in clearly recreational dive venues.

 

[Teamcasa]

Yes, I have a negative attitude towards DIR to some degree. Fostered largely by my local community.

I have found the opposite to be true. The local SoCal DIR divers are friendly, helpful and a great bunch of people. More importantly, they have fun diving.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I have found the opposite to be true. The local SoCal DIR divers are friendly, helpful and a great bunch of people. More importantly, they have fun diving.

And I'm in no position to dispute that. I can only speak to what I've experienced.

 

[elan]

Note: I'm a rank rookie at this but I'm hoping to get it *mostly* right.

A balanced rig was explained to us as 2 equally important parts:

1) a rig that you can swim up in case of total loss of buoyancy
2) a rig that allows you to hold your stops at the end of the dive where you will be the lightest.

For #1 we were told that it is generally possible to swim up 10 lbs of "weight" (this will vary some from person to person). So if you at the beginning of the dive are able to completely empty your wing and - if applicable - flood your dry suit and end up 10 lbs negatively buoyant, you're ok. Even if this is accomplished by ditching some weight.

So if we reverse this to where you *need* 30 lbs of lift to offset negative buoyancy at the beginning of a dive when diving a singles rig, you probably need to review your set-up.

As for the brand name thing - there was no harping on brand in our Fundies class nor in the required reading material.

Henrik
(pls. let me know if I got the Balanced Rig thing wrong ...)

Seems to me that's the same understanding I have. And now I have a question to the audience. I might not understanding well the definition or I come to the conclusion that it's impossible to have a balanced rig in all cases. One of the cases is that I can not see how a rig can be balanced with double steel tanks. If I take my rig as example, my dry suit is I would guess about 15 lb positive which I compensate by the negative buoyancy of my HP100 tanks and SS plate. I wear no extra weight except 1 tail pocket for trim adjustment. With empty tanks I'm slightly negative.

So if I get the flood I will be approx 30lb negative at the beginning if the dive which I will not be able to swim up and more importantly to hold on the surface. The only way I can see I can make it more or less balanced is to use Al tanks and weight harness with all ditchable weight. But that's extra 13lb of lead. Which is not good either.

Do I fail to understand that balanced rig concept or in such cases one just takes it how it is and use one more buoyancy device as a backup?

 

[Anti-Hero]

Yes, I have a negative attitude towards DIR to some degree. Fostered largely by my local community. And while I recognize that that community is not representative of all, or even necessarily the majority of DIR members, I still come to the table with the experiences I have had.

But to your non ad hominum point: isn't the devil in the details?

My dives are planned, including contingency procedures. My gear configuration and my buddies are well thought out to the type of diving we do, we practice basic skills and safety procedures and so on. We even include many bits of gear and configuration that are more or less part of the DIR gear requirements.

But in no way would be considered to be diving DIR.

From the outside looking in, and reading the Fundamentals book, all I can find that is uniquely DIR is about the gear configuration, and standardized gases. Something that is true of many other groups as well.

Yet within DIR there's a remarkable tendency to point out that someone is a DIR diver. Something not seen to such a degree with other agencies. Along with a contention that those who are not diving DIR are unsafe to one degree or another.

Outside of gear, what is uniquely DIR beyond the assertion that DIR is a holistic system, and therefore safer, and every other system isn't?

If you're comfortable with your gear and your diving and your buddies, why do you care what DIR divers think? If you really want to understand the system, close your internet browser and take a GUE class. All your questions will be answered, I promise.

Minutiae is what makes DIR more than just a unique diving concept.

DIR training and standardized gear configurations makes the well trained diver safer and just as importantly, a safer diver to dive with in confined/deep/technical dive locations.

The nitpicking starts when DIR divers tout that DIR diving is the best/only safe way to dive in clearly recreational dive venues.

I'm not following your point? Nobody has said DIR is the "the best/only safe" way to dive in this thread.

 

[Teamcasa]

So if I get the [(drysuit)] flood I will be approx 30lb negative

A flood will not cause you to be anymore negative in the water, just colder and harder to pull yourself out on to the boat.

 

[Gombessa]

The nitpicking starts when DIR divers tout that DIR diving is the best/only safe way to dive in clearly recreational dive venues.

Over the last couple of years, it's been my experience that nitpicking starts when people *claim* DIR divers say such things. I wonder if anyone who has responded to this post has EVER said that DIR is the best/only safe way to dive recreationally?

 

[JeffG]

A flood will not cause you to be anymore negative in the water, just colder and harder to pull yourself out on to the boat.

You will lose some of the buoyancy of the undergarments though. Some undergarments are better than others in this regard.