An Attempt at Understanding DIR

[Kingpatzer]

go back and re-read

30 lbs = unbalanced rig

unbalanced rig = accident

and since this isn't math...you cannot link 30 lbs = accident.

Ok, since the quote reads:

However, if, in fact, a diver does need more than 65 pounds of lift for diving doubles, or more than 30 pounds for diving singles, then they do not have a balanced rig and are an accident waiting to happen

So if a diver with a single, scooter and stage bottles finds themselves needing 35# of lift to dive comfortably, you would consider them unsafe?

 

[JeffG]

Ok, since the quote reads:

yes...please re-read the quote.

So if a diver with a single, scooter and stage bottles finds themselves needing 35# of lift to dive comfortably, you would consider them unsafe?

I would consider them not very intelligent. Its a start to the path of unsafe.

Hint: Scooters are neutral and stage bottles are very close to neutral.

 

[Gombessa]

So if a diver with a single, scooter and stage bottles finds themselves needing 35# of lift to dive comfortably, you would consider them unsafe?

1. Do DIR divers in singles typical wear stages?

2. Does an AL stage bottle affect your weighting requirements? Does a scooter?

In my very limited experience and observations, the answers to the above are all generally "No." If that's indeed the case, then someone adding 10lb of weight and lift to accommodate a stage and scooter is definitely missing something and unbalancing their rig.

 

[elan]

I'm no way a DIR diver, but the concept drew my attention a lot and I have yet to see where that concept (DIR) would fail. So far everything looks simple and well thought out for me at my low level of experience.

As for choosing dive partners I have came to the following conclusion over diving with different people. It's not that dangerous to dive with inexperienced people as it is with people that would refuse coming into an agreement on the dive plan, refuse any further training and take unnecessary risks. I had few cases in my life and it just proved the statement regarding not diving with unsafe people.

Besides DIR has their protocols. Knowing protocols by heart can make a difference between life and death in some situations. If you dive at 50' on a reef it's once case, if you are in overhead it's different story. Yiu cannot learn the protocol in 5 mins during pre-dive briefing so that is one of the reasons why DIR group would not take a non-DIR diver on some advanced dive. I personally had no problems diving with guys having DIR training on regular OW sites.

 

[Rhone Man]

Speaking as a non-DIR diver, in terms of attitudes, I find (like anything) you find huge discrepancies. There are some DIR divers who fit the OP's description well. Equally, I recently took a gas blending class and I was the only non-DIR diver in the room (including the instructor), but everyone was very friendly and happy to discuss "broader" approaches to mixing (or rather mixes), and no one criticised or judged (at least not openly).

Again, speaking as an outsider, I break DIR philosophy down into four components: equipment configuration (which everyone seems fixate on), fitness (which almost everyone seems to ignore), training (which I think most would agree tends to be more extensive and intensive than other approaches) and an ephemeral fourth category which I refer to as "attitude/approach".

I think it is the fourth category where tensions can easily arise.

 

[JeffG]

I'm no way a DIR diver, but the concept drew my attention a lot and I have yet to see where that concept (DIR) would fail.

Fail is the wrong term. Limiting would be the term I would use.

 

[JeffG]

I break DIR philosophy down into four components: equipment configuration (which everyone seems fixate on), fitness (which almost everyone seems to ignore), training (which I think most would agree tends to be more extensive and intensive than other approaches) and an ephemeral fourth category which I refer to as "attitude/approach".

Not quite.


DIR is a set of policies and procedures based on a specific equipment configuration to execute a dive.

Thats it.

So using your info above....fitness falls into policy. Training teaches you procedures.

 

[HenrikBP]

Can you explain to me how stating that having more than 30# of lift with a single makes someone "an accident waiting to happen" is taking something out of context?

Note: I'm a rank rookie at this but I'm hoping to get it *mostly* right.

A balanced rig was explained to us as 2 equally important parts:

1) a rig that you can swim up in case of total loss of buoyancy
2) a rig that allows you to hold your stops at the end of the dive where you will be the lightest.

For #1 we were told that it is generally possible to swim up 10 lbs of "weight" (this will vary some from person to person). So if you at the beginning of the dive are able to completely empty your wing and - if applicable - flood your dry suit and end up 10 lbs negatively buoyant, you're ok. Even if this is accomplished by ditching some weight.

So if we reverse this to where you *need* 30 lbs of lift to offset negative buoyancy at the beginning of a dive when diving a singles rig, you probably need to review your set-up.

As for the brand name thing - there was no harping on brand in our Fundies class nor in the required reading material.

Henrik
(pls. let me know if I got the Balanced Rig thing wrong ...)

 

[elan]

Fail is the wrong term. Limiting would be the term I would use.

yes that would be closer...

 

[Blackwood]

I'm no way a DIR diver, but the concept drew my attention a lot and I have yet to see where that concept (DIR) would fail. So far everything looks simple and well thought out for me at my low level of experience.

DIR dives are a collaborative effort. It fails if there is only one of you.