" Am I Qualified?"

[tom wicker]

This has to be one of the better threads Ive seen on here in some time

This thread reminds me of an article I read not long ago. Cody Brown I think his name was at 12 years old is now a Certified Master Diver. Now if this youth walked into your shop with the C-card dropped down a log book and wants to dive the Big “O” what would you do? At the age of 12 has he much experience? Could he be qualified? But he has the card and book that says so.

I would have to agree with SuPrBugmAn on his quote above “Experience” means more than any book or card

 

[baitedstorm]

Man.. Tom, that would be tough. My kids have both been certified for 3 years and like little fish in the water (ages 10 & 15). I don't think I'd take either one of them on the big "O" dive. Both of them are to young to be Nitrox certified, and would require it for the dive site I had in mind.

That might just be me being a mom... I really can't say. I would be very likely to discourage the parents.

 

[mikerault]

In over 100 dives, about 50% of them with dive operators, no one has ever questioned if I could do a dive. I show the card, fill in the paper and dive. This was true from the first dive to 90 feet (Grand Turk, first dive there as a certified diver) to dives all over the Caribbean.

Now, if I was trying to do the Doria or the Speigal Grove, I would hope they would check a little deeper, and I hope when I do the Oriskany in March there will be some checking to be sure I can "walk-the'walk" as well as "talk-the-talk" but so far at least with the dive operators I have used, I haven't really had to prove anything other than I had a C-card.

Of course I also show up with a full set of gear (sans tank and weights) and do a competent setup and pay attention during the dive briefing (the only time I was questioned, and it was "Is that on right?" was when I put on a new wetsuit backwards...darn if those reinforcements at the knees didn't look like kneepads...)

So...depending on what you are doing you may only have to show a C-card. Most of your recreational level dvies probably won't check anything but that you have been certified by someone somewhere at sometime. I have never been asked for my dive log, but I do keep it up to date.

Mike

 

[Walter]

Very interesting discussion.

1) How do you convince a Dive Operator (Boat or Shop) that You are Qualified to do a certain Dive?

What dive?

2) What do you say is equivalent to AOW? (as how many dives and how deep)

One dive to 60 feet.

I don't look at a C-Card as hard as I do a log book.

What does that mean?

I check out the divers gear. Brand new gear and very outdated gear put up red flags (although both can easily be misread if not careful).

What do you consider "outdated"? Much of my gear is older than the DM on the boat and it works better than his new gear. I love seeing gear that is well broken in, it gives me a clue that the diver has experience.

If I'm taking divers to a challenging dive, I like to spend some time just talking to them. Educating them on the profile.
If I get a weird vibe from the diver, I'll explore the issue further.

Excellent points.

When I see a AOW c-card, I know at least once in the divers life they've been to at least 100feet (PADI).

I'm sure you teach the class that way, but PADI standards only require one dive to 60 feet. Under PADI standards, you can have two divers with a total of 9 dives experience, one of whom is an OW diver with 2 dives to 40 ft, 2 dives to 60 feet and 5 dives to 100 feet while the other is an AOW diver with 8 dives to 20 feet and 1 dive to 60 feet. Operators think the AOW card will protect them in court. I think that could depend on the expert witnesses that testify. The AOW card is basically meaningless.

The way you inquire about the dives: features and attractions, not an obsession with depth or other irrelevant issues

I'm worried about someone who considers depth irrelevent. Depth is a critical factor in dive planning. How much gas do I need? Which gas do I need? What is my NDL with that gas? Depth is critical, not irrelevent.

Even with your wisdom far exceeding my own, I simply would not take you out to an extremely challenging site without the proper c-card and documentation of current dives. I know it certainly wouldn't make me popular, but I have an obligation to both the diver and myself.

Vickie, knowing both you and Fred, I'd have to say that would be a mistake on your part. Having a great deal of respect for you, your experience and your abilities, I would have to say, with the exception of teaching, Fred is more qualified than either you or I for any dive we'd consider making. Besides, he recently picked up a Silver Advanced card.

My kids have both been certified for 3 years and like little fish in the water (ages 10 & 15).

So you certified them at 7 & 12?

I don't think I'd take either one of them on the big "O" dive. Both of them are to young to be Nitrox certified, and would require it for the dive site I had in mind.

I wouldn't make that dive on nitrox, it's too deep.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I haven't dived the Oriskany but from what I've read the flight deck is at 137 feet?

Are charters taking AOW (non-tech) divers there and, if so, how are they conducting these dives?

Based on what little I know about it, the dive you'd get trying to do it as a no-stop dive doesn't sound like it would be worth the boat ride.

 

[FredT]

Thanks for the vote of confidance Walter.

Vickie,

I dove hole in the wall not long after it was discovered. It's an awesome dive but not what I'd consider extremely technically challenging unless you shoot something large hanging out in it and miss a kill shot. Deep drifts on walls are a rush, but they can go south in a big way REALLY FAST if you don't know exactly what you are doing. I perfectly understand your reluctance to take some divers on it. Personally there is a long list of instructors I'd like to leave on the boat on that dive.

FT

 

[jviehe]

1) How do you convince a Dive Operator (Boat or Shop) that You are Qualified to do a certain Dive?
2) What do you say is equivalent to AOW? (as how many dives and how deep)

Feel free to add to this.

Show them a Cave Diving Certification.

 

[FredT]

Show them a Cave Diving Certification.

I'd be reluctant to take a dedicated cave diver on some of the deeper gulf rigs. The skills sets are not necessarily complimentary. Following or laying line in a hole in the rocks is a completely different skill set than hunting large fish in bottomless water with rapidly shifting currents and unpredictable vis.

The O is an interesting wreck I'll probably do in a year or two after it's had a chance to mature a bit. Upright the island is going to be an easy and fairly small shallowish dive. The flight deck is essentially a big barge at extreme sport depth, with some good nooks and crannies that'll hold invertebrates.

Below the flight deck the dive is technical and will require planned deco at least, bottom or penetration would be a doubles dive with specific training.

Currents out on the O can be up to 3 knots surface, a bit over a knot on the bottom.

FT

 

[captain]

I am in Freds catagory, a 1970 YMCA card that says "scuba diver". 99.9% of my dives have been from my boat or a friends boat. My "log" is more of a charter captain's (which I was for a while) book of numbers with a description of the site and maybe anything special about it plus maybe a little dive info. I might make 3 dives at one site but my book usually doesn't indicate it. A lot of my gear is older than probably half the divers on this board. Now everything is about cards.

 

[GA Under Water]

***********Disclaimer*************
This is based on a noob diver that thinks he understands PADI training and limits. Please read at your own risk.
***********Disclaimer*************

Basically, I think this should ALL be decided by the Diver that wants to Dive and not left up to the pro. You know your limits based on your own training. If you want to exceed those suggested limits, it is up to the Professional to say, "yes or no" about taking you on that dive. When you charter a Boat, no matter what kind of waiver you have signed, the owner of the boat has some liability. If the operator took you to the Deck of the Oriskany with only an AOW then they are at fault.

It takes 4 dives at 60+ feet with tasks plus more Knowledge reading/tests to complete "Deep Diver" in which the "suggested" MAX limit is 130 feet but the limit suggested as safe is 100'.

Advanced trains you for One dive of each "Adventure" dive. These help push you towards Specializations like Deep, DPV, Nav, etc etc. it gives you Nothing in the way of setting new suggested limits for the diver.

If I am wrong, please would a PADI Instructor help me out by telling me how it really works?