Am I being a wimp about these dive plans, or is this how you become a better diver?

[noserider]

What is your insurance for, instructor liability or trip insurance or? I don't have to have insurance to go diving. I carry liability insurance for teaching and DAN for traveling but only one Liveaboard and one resort has ever required dive insurance that I have been to and they were very remote destinations. My medical insurance covers me if I get hurt diving in the US, I've checked. Also the website states "You can dive on your own with a buddy up to a maximum depth of 18 meters/60 feet" nothing mentioned about with a professional. My understanding of this is that was your training depth max so as a newly trained OW diver you have not been below that so have not gained that experience yet. Diving with a guide/DM/instructor below that depth is how you gain that experience.

This is my standard travel insurance policy which covers medical, belonging, cancelation etc, I keep a Dan Policy on top of this. As I am based in the UK we have free medical care when I am home and I am sure the NHS will not check what depth I was diving at if I needed medical help. I keep travel insurance as I have had to make significant claims abroad and have seen friends incur huge debts through medical emergencies whilst abroad.

With regard to depth my understanding is that to be certified to go deeper than 18 metres at a PADI affiliated dive centre, you must be qualified at a higher level than OW or on a course and my standard insurance is not valid if you go deeper than you are certified to

However, if we get back on point are posters here really encouraging a diver with a handful of dives, that has not been in the water for a couple of years to take a dive of about 100 feet without adequate training or supervision?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

What is the appropriate class to take to prepare for a short swim-through?

If the swim thru is more than a body length and two people cannot pass through side by side either some level of cave or wreck penetration training. Depending on if it's a natural or manmade overhead.
Anytime you have newer divers going through something where they cannot immediately assist their buddy they run an unacceptable risk in my opinion.
That these things are such common practice is one of the reasons I have no interest in going anywhere that a boat or operator allows it and why I won't do business with any op that puts a guide in the water to lead people into these things.
Or puts a guide in the water period because I don't want to be around and have to deal with the after-effects when they lose someone. It seems to be so common a practice that I don't recommend operations or destinations to students if I know they are put at risk of this.
In fact when I hear of an op that does I tell my students to avoid them.

 

[Marie13]

However, if we get back on point are posters here really encouraging a diver with a handful of dives, that has not been in the water for a couple of years to take a dive of about 100 feet without adequate training or supervision?

So it seems.

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

Hi folks,

Long-time reader, first-time poster. I hope this is the appropriate forum for posting.

I am a new diver. I was certified (OW) right before the pandemic, did 12 dives, fell in love, couldn't wait to go again. Local diving isn't a thing where I live, so once the pandemic happened my dreams of diving again were squashed temporarily.

Well, we're comfortable enough to travel again (of course, buying travelers insurance for everything in case we need to cancel) and are hoping to go out this summer. It's not a dive trip per se, but there is diving at the location and we wanted to do some!

My husband is a bit more experienced than me. He's done ~150 dives, but mostly in high school and college (so it's been a while for him). As we started making travel plans, he identified some dives he wanted to do and asked for my opinion.

One of them is totally fine, and I'm already looking forward to it.

Dive 2 is a wreck dive, but the kind you swim around and look at, not the kind you go into. Only issue - it's at 100'. I am (I believe) certified to 60' with my OW, and have not gone below 52' before.

When he showed me pictures of Dive 3, it looked like an overhead environment to me. I expressed that and he replied that it wasn't a "real" one, because there were openings in the ceiling that led to open water, and that you can see the entrance and exit to the space the whole time you're inside.

I expressed that I was not comfortable with Dives 2 and 3. The one thing they hammered into my head over and over again during my certification was to only dive within your skill and comfort level (of course "never enter an overhead environment until you've been trained" was a big one too). Given that I'm only OW, and have like a dozen dives under my belt, I do not feel that these dives are within my skill *or* comfort level. I'm happy to do three dives total (plus a refresher, which we're both doing), just not those two in particular.

His response is that this is how you become a better diver, and increase your skills and comfort. He himself only has OW, but has done dives of up to 120' and has done some cave dives ("really safe" ones, in his words). He says the classes and certifications are great, but the best way to gain experience is to just go out and do it. He thinks I'm just nervous because it's been a couple of years, and that once I'm done with my refresher dive and Dive 1, I'll want to do Dives 2 and 3 too.

He also mentioned that for both of these dives, the only certification that the shop requires is OW. So part of me is thinking that if the shop thinks these sites are okay for OW folks, then maybe my husband is right and I should give it a try. But I just can't shake how strongly the message of "don't dive beyond your skill" is hammered into my head.

Your thoughts? Happy to hear any opinions.

I wouldn’t be contemplating such a dive without first realizing the correct training—even if you have a water sports background. DAN statistics strongly suggest that divers with less than 30-dives are at risk. Those depths may induce narcosis. As a novice, I’m sure you’re still using a snorkel, and your hose configuration isn’t ‘Do It Right’. Every overhead environment has the potential for entanglement, for which you would be ill-equipped to manage. Use a flashlight with lanyard (600 lumens minimum) to probe from outside the wreck. Don’t forget to touch the mask nose-pocket in a consecutive manner with each finger while at depth. Dive with an experienced guide.

 

[drrich2]

that feels a little bit stronger than a recommendation and if you are diving with a PADI facility I would expect them to enforce the limits that divers are trained to dive to or I would go elsewhere

Then you'd go elsewhere if you encountered a number of dive operators in the Caribbean. It's not unusual for the max. depth for dive to be 60 something down to 80 something feet at some point on dive #1 of a given day.

Thing is, 'the limits that divers are trained to' is a controversial statement, as this thread shows. Advancing beyond 60-feet over time with experience gradually growing your diving capabilities is legitimate.

There are people who got their OW cert. back when that was seen as 'good' down to 130-feet. Nowadays, there are some operators who want to see Advanced Open Water cert. for some of their dives.

Interestingly, I believe PADI AOW is down to 100 feet, but for diving in areas where max. depths often run a bit past that (e.g.: North Carolina's off-shore wreck diving), I have never seen a requirement for a recreational diver to have the Deep Diver certification.

 

[Asteve]

I have not read all the post.
You did 12 dive 2 years ago, you need to do some easy dive first,(even if you did some refresher dives a month age.) to get use to all the stuff that is going on around you. It seem that people that get bent with no cause(?) seem to happen the first day of a trip, so don't push it.
When I took my class many moon ago. The DM moto: was if it not fun, you should not be doing it.
Your husband need to know if you are not having fun, he going to have a hard time getting you to go again.
About the 2 dive you are talking about, as you go down you will find out once you get below 60 feet you will not notice the pressure change so watching Depth Gage is importance, going below 60 just shorten the bottom time so much that I like 60 feet, as I get to see so much more.
As far as doing the over head, no way, I know all I need, is to see an eel comping at me and I am going to hurt myself getting out of there. hahaha
If you are asking if you should be doing a dive you probably should not, at lest find out what you need to know before doing it. You are the boss of you and that is even more true in diving.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Hi folks, But I just can't shake how strongly the message of "don't dive beyond your skill" is hammered into my head.
Your thoughts? Happy to hear any opinions.

My thoughts are this. You are correct to not want to do dives 2 & 3 especially when you have not dived for awhile and also do not have a lot of dive experience.

I will go diving in May 2022 and I am an experienced diver and have been diving since 1986. Except for Covid years where I have not done a lot of diving I normally do around 200 plus vacation dives a year in the last decade. I will not have dived for 11 months and will do 40 plus dives vacation. My first morning dive I already have planned along a wall dive where the sea bed is 15m deep. So my first dive will be a shallow dive to 15m depth for around 75 mins on Nitrox 32%. That is another cert that is worth getting. So my dive will be at 15m for that time. A square profile dive really. I always use my first 2 dives back and settling back into my zone of being totally comfortable. My second dive in the afternoon after 3 hour surface interval I limit myself to max depth of 20m - 25m, again I will be diving on Nitrox 32%.

You may find even after your first refresher dive that you still are getting used to diving again. Some people need a few dives to feel totally at ease. The most important thing is that YOU have the right to not go on any dive or even if you were on the dive for a few minutes to decide hey this dive is not for me and to end that dive. Do not let other people force you into the it's ok you will be ok when your own feeling is that it is not.

Yes doing more dives gets you experience but you are still a relatively inexperienced diver. It is good you understand that and wrote your post. Also 2 years is a long time not to have any any dives and your total of a dozen dives means very limited experience.

Also insurance companies like DAN and Dive Assure will not pay out if you dive below your certified OW limit if you have an incident deeper than 18m. See post below.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Hi folks, Your thoughts? Happy to hear any opinions.

I do not use DAN or Dive Assure as I have other insurance from the country I live in that does not have depth limits for my diving activities. Your certification for insurance claims would be limited to your OW depth of 18m. Padi themselves write that a diver is not limited to any depth except on training dives. Post training you can dive to recreational depth limits but always recommended is that you take the courses and training for deeper dives.

I emailed Dive Assure about their coverage as they offer no Depth Limit on their website if you want to buy diving insurance. Of course then you read the fine print and it states on OC diving the max depth is 50m. Some agencies allow 60m depth on OC.

So here is the back and forth I got from Dive Assure only two days ago

Shannen​	Thu, Mar 17, 3:49 PM (18 hours ago)
to me

Shannen <shannen@diveassure.com>​	Mar 17, 2022, 2:45 PM (19 hours ago)
to me

Hi xxxxx,

thank you for contacting us. As long as you dive according to the limit that your certification states, you are covered.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Happy Friday.

Best regards,

Shannen
DiveAssure Association

p: +49-3222-109-5966 | m: +44-20-3287-8517
skype: shannen@diveassure.com
Website • Facebook • Apple Store • Play Store

From: DiveAssure <noreply@diveassure.com>
Date: Thu, Mar 17, 2022, 01:32
Subject: Contact from DiveAssure.com - US
To: <uscallcenter@diveassure.com>

From: xxxx <a2511973@gmail.com>
Subject: [your-subject]

Country: Taiwan

Message Body:
I read your policy says no depth limits but OC recreational dives are max 50m.

PADI state that AOW recreational divers can dive to 40m. Some people claim that you need a deep diver certificate to be covered for this insurance. In the AOW a specialty dive to 40m is offered. Can you please advise what the policy is on this.

Thanks

This e-mail was sent from a contact form on DiveAssure (https://www.diveassure.com)

Hi xxxx,

I meant that if the certifying agency sets a limit of 30m for an AOW Diver, then you are covered, as it is according to the limit set for this level of certification. If you would go beyond 30m and have an accident, you would not be covered.

As far as I remember from my time as Dive Pro, you have a limit of 30m as AOW Diver but with the deep diver certification you are allowed to go up to 40m. So if you do not hold this deep diver cert. and go beyond 30 m with your AOW cert and have an accident, we would not cover you.

 

[clownfishsydney]

With only 12 dives in total, 30 m (100 feet) is way too ambitious. You need a lot more experience to even think of diving to this depth. Not even a course will give you that level of experience.

 

[mcohen1021]

I agree with what's been said above… do only what you're comfortable with. You'll get more comfortable with more dives. There's really not much difference between 60 and 100 to be honest. I don't blame you for being apprehensive about the wreck