Am I being a wimp about these dive plans, or is this how you become a better diver?

[twostringsandawheel]

Hi folks,

Long-time reader, first-time poster. I hope this is the appropriate forum for posting.

I am a new diver. I was certified (OW) right before the pandemic, did 12 dives, fell in love, couldn't wait to go again. Local diving isn't a thing where I live, so once the pandemic happened my dreams of diving again were squashed temporarily.

Well, we're comfortable enough to travel again (of course, buying travelers insurance for everything in case we need to cancel) and are hoping to go out this summer. It's not a dive trip per se, but there is diving at the location and we wanted to do some!

My husband is a bit more experienced than me. He's done ~150 dives, but mostly in high school and college (so it's been a while for him). As we started making travel plans, he identified some dives he wanted to do and asked for my opinion.

One of them is totally fine, and I'm already looking forward to it.

Dive 2 is a wreck dive, but the kind you swim around and look at, not the kind you go into. Only issue - it's at 100'. I am (I believe) certified to 60' with my OW, and have not gone below 52' before.

When he showed me pictures of Dive 3, it looked like an overhead environment to me. I expressed that and he replied that it wasn't a "real" one, because there were openings in the ceiling that led to open water, and that you can see the entrance and exit to the space the whole time you're inside.

I expressed that I was not comfortable with Dives 2 and 3. The one thing they hammered into my head over and over again during my certification was to only dive within your skill and comfort level (of course "never enter an overhead environment until you've been trained" was a big one too). Given that I'm only OW, and have like a dozen dives under my belt, I do not feel that these dives are within my skill *or* comfort level. I'm happy to do three dives total (plus a refresher, which we're both doing), just not those two in particular.

His response is that this is how you become a better diver, and increase your skills and comfort. He himself only has OW, but has done dives of up to 120' and has done some cave dives ("really safe" ones, in his words). He says the classes and certifications are great, but the best way to gain experience is to just go out and do it. He thinks I'm just nervous because it's been a couple of years, and that once I'm done with my refresher dive and Dive 1, I'll want to do Dives 2 and 3 too.

He also mentioned that for both of these dives, the only certification that the shop requires is OW. So part of me is thinking that if the shop thinks these sites are okay for OW folks, then maybe my husband is right and I should give it a try. But I just can't shake how strongly the message of "don't dive beyond your skill" is hammered into my head.

Your thoughts? Happy to hear any opinions.

 

[Marie13]

Don’t do the dives if you don’t want to. It’s a big difference going from a 52ft dive to a 100ft one. And definitely no for the overhead. Have you considered doing AOW on this trip?

EDIT: your husband has done cave dives? Cenotes in MX?

Sounds like he’s trying to pressure you into doing the dives. No means no!

 

[KatieMac]

For the 2nd dive, you definitely should not until you go through advanced training. I agree with @Marie13 - there is a big difference between 52 feet and 100 feet.

For the 3rd dive, can you tell us the dive site/location? Some places "look" like they might be a cave but definitely are not.

Your husband is correct that you become a better diver by pushing yourself. But if your buoyancy and air consumption are not good, you may not be ready for that yet.

 

[James79]

When I was certified, OW certified you to recreational limits (up to 130 ft, within NDL)..... however training dives were limited to 60 ft, and the wording in the certification was that it was not recommended to go beyond your training and or experience. Where I'm going with this is that 100 ft with just OW cert is no big deal..... IF you worked up to it (developed the experience in increments). Straight from a personal max of 52 to 100 ft is a bit big of a jump for my taste.
Regarding the "Overhead environment", it's sort of a depends situation. Is a coral arch swim through an overhead? nearly everyone will agree it's not. Is a cavern that you can see the entrance to an overhead? Usually yes. Where in between those two is the line? For me, I am ok if I can look up at an angle and see the surface. If I can't see the surface, it's an overhead (for my personal risk assessment decisions).
Lastly, remember that anyone can call the dive at any time (before and during) for any reason. I drove 10 hours and had a hotel for 2 nights to dive with someone once, and when we started he "just didn't feel right".... so we drank soda, had snacks, hung out and talked dive gear. No hard feelings and glad he was honest enough with me (and himself) to call the dive. It's better to be on the surface wishing you were diving than at depth wishing you were on the surface.

Respectfully,

James

 

[twostringsandawheel]

Thanks folks. I did consider AOW for this trip, but because it's a "vacation with diving" rather than a "diving vacation," I decided not to. If I did AOW myself and then a few dives with the hubby, it might kinda be all I end up doing on the trip.

If I do end up doing AOW, any suggestions for the 3 specialty dives? I think I would definitely want to do Peak Performance Buoyancy, as I could still use some work in that area. Self-reliant diver appeals to me, not because I have any plans to dive solo, but the skills sound useful, both in a regular dive and in some potential "oh crap" situations. I've love to do something rescue-related so I can be helpful in an emergency, but the dive for that sounds more like recovering lost items than it is about rescuing a diver.

As for what sites I'm talking about, I know I may sound like a crazy person, but I'm not comfortable sharing that. I have a stalker who has a nasty habit of finding anything I post online (even when I use a random word generator to make a username, like I did for this account).

I did a search for "Is [Dive 3] an overhead environment," and one site referred to it as a "benign" overhead environment, while the PADI summary doesn't refer to it being a cave/overhead at all and says it's okay for all experience levels.

I asked my husband if we did Dive 3, and we got to the inside part and I was no longer comfortable, would he be okay with waiting outside with me? Is there a way we could go around the structure and meet the group on the other side, or just return to the boat on our own? He said he would ask the dive shop and let me know, but if they would allow it, then he would be fine with us not going inside. It's a 65' dive which I know is deeper than I've gone before, but 65' sounds *so* much more reasonable than 100'.

 

[mbrann]

Your significant other is correct - you only need OW certification to do those dives. HOWEVER, even the most experienced sport divers should not be doing something they are uncomfortable with. If you do dives you aren’t prepared to do then you are not a dive buddy. You become dependent on your buddy and may not be able to come to their aid.

Don’t do the dives you aren’t comfortable with. Period. That’s how good people end up in bad situations.

Marty

 

[rongoodman]

Another thing to remember is that at 100' both you and your husband are going to be using gas at a greater rate than the dives you've done before and you're more likely to be running into NDLs, especially if you're using plain air. These are both things that you'll need to keep a close eye on as the dives progress. And there is no such thing as a "really safe" cave dive, especially for an untrained diver!

 

[Lorenzoid]

Dive 2 is a wreck dive, but the kind you swim around and look at, not the kind you go into. Only issue - it's at 100'. I am (I believe) certified to 60' with my OW, and have not gone below 52' before.

When he showed me pictures of Dive 3, it looked like an overhead environment to me. I expressed that and he replied that it wasn't a "real" one, because there were openings in the ceiling that led to open water, and that you can see the entrance and exit to the space the whole time you're inside.

Everyone has their own comfort level, and many of us choose to extend our comfort levels gradually, over many dives. From the way you phrased your post, I don't think you're ready for Dive 2. No big deal. I have done over 500 ocean dives, and 100 feet is still a sort of threshold for me. I will do a dive to 100 feet or even a bit more under the right conditions, but I give it more thought and preparation than I would a shallower dive. The bottom line is that this is a HOBBY; if it doesn't immediately sound like fun but rather more like a possible source of anxiety, don't do it. You may feel differently about the same dive in the future, but what's important is how you feel right now. Not doing a particular dive is no big deal; there are many many other dives to be done, on which you will feel nothing but a sense of having FUN--no anxiety.

As for Dive 3, I have a similar attitude toward these kinds of dives: We all have a different threshold for the line between a "swim-through" and an "overhead." @boulderjohn has written about this. My personal threshold is that I will not do it if I can't see light coming from the other side. I ask the divemaster ahead of time to describe the purported swim-through, and if it doesn't sound right to me, I tell the DM I'm going to take a pass on it. My buddy and I might opt to swim around it and meet up with others on the other side, or whatever seems feasible. Plan in advance for what you will do if you reach the swim-through and, upon first-hand inspection, decide on the spot not to do it. Don't succumb to peer pressure, even that of a well-intentioned spouse.

 

[James79]

If I do end up doing AOW, any suggestions for the 3 specialty dives? I think I would definitely want to do Peak Performance Buoyancy, as I could still use some work in that area. Self-reliant diver appeals to me, not because I have any plans to dive solo, but the skills sound useful, both in a regular dive and in some potential "oh crap" situations. I've love to do something rescue-related so I can be helpful in an emergency, but the dive for that sounds more like recovering lost items than it is about rescuing a diver.

In no particular order:
Self reliant is a full specialty, and I doubt it would have a place as one of the dives for AOW..... it has a pre requisite of 100 dives and a skill assessment by the instructor. Regardless, solo/self reliant is largely about mindset, a little about gear, and alot about skills to take care of yourself in contingencies. Reminds me of an old pilot saying "the superior pilot uses their superior judgment to avoid needing their superior skills."
Peak Performance Buoyancy can be great, or can be a waste.... depends largely on the instructor.

And lastly, the dives in AOW are not the whole specialty.... just a single dive sample of what the specialty is all about. Just food for thought.

Respectfully,

James

 

[MtnDiverColorado]

I don't think getting a little out of your comfort zone is a bad thing, otherwise no one would try anything new. I had pause about my first night dive, but am happy I have done that.

However, I think that you want to have some more dives under your belt before going to 100'. Not sure what exactly the overhead situation is... but as others have said, I think a really important scuba skill that few people talk about is the willingness to say no to a dive.

My wife is a much better diver than I am. I think the woman is part mermaid, and I have learned to every once in a while say "I think I'll sit this one out," and she has learned, to say, "that's ok, I'll be sure to get some good video if I see something cool.."

Feel comfortable saying no.