Alpha "Dive" Flag

[deepblueme]

You may also want to make sure it is legal to leave an un manned vessel where you plan to dive.
I know in Missouri it was frowned on. The state Water Patrol would wait for you to come up and give you a lecture even if you were flying the "A" flag if your boat was unmanned at anchor.

I have never seen or heard of anyone flying a meter tall "A" flag and that includes during my international work.

And a little triva... the Red & White stripe flag was started to advertise a dive store years ago I think it was a store called Sportco some where in the NE. It became the way for shore divers to signal boaters they were there.

 

[lowviz]

About the only people who can answer this question in its entirety and accurately is going to be someone in the know with the Coast Guard or a US Attorney. Just reading the code does not cut it because of to many subsections and case laws that go along with codes.

Then there is the issue of Navigable and Non Navigable waters which make a huge difference in the codes. There are places where Federal Codes are trumped by State Codes and Visa Versa.

So I think it would be best to try and find someone who actually KNOWS what is going on and don’t try and define the codes yourself. Then there is the issue of three attornies having three different opinions.

I got a 3' x 3' Dive and Alpha flags from West Marine several years ago.

Gary D.

Good answer that points out the actual problem. You are trying to get the attention of non-experts. Years ago I was in the water with a group that had a VERY close encounter with a small craft. Post incident briefing with boater present showed absolutely no knowledge of the Alpha flag. As we were all told, the Alpha signifies a craft, movable structure, dredge, etc. in navigable waters that is at anchorage or otherwise incapable of adequate evasionary movements. Most people boating in US waters know what the informal 'dive flag' is. Recommendation: Code Alpha AND dive flag on anchored craft and diver pulls a 'dive flag' float if he/she leaves the flagged area of the craft. Which brings up the flagged area around the craft...

 

[Waterskier1]

Good answer that points out the actual problem. You are trying to get the attention of non-experts.

It seems it has evolved (deteriorated) to that. As I've said before, the intent of my original post was simply to find out where to buy a 1 meter high Alpha Flag. I figured non-expert (layman) shoppers could answer that adequately.

I had no intentions of questioning or polling people about the law, since I thought I understood it. If you read back, you will see that I have submitted my question to the USCG, Navigation Department for their reading and reference.

 

[Oxy]

I understand what is being said. I don't want to be argumentative, but when I read the requirement for Rule 27 (e) (ii) on page 96 (International) and page 97 (Inland):

(ii) a rigid replica of the International Code flag “A” not less than 1 meter in height. Measures shall be taken to ensure its all-round visibility.

The first sentence is speaking to the rigid replica of the flag, including the size of it. The second sentence discusses position of the replica flag.

Additionally, in Annex I as you mentioned, where they talk the technical details of height, they always refer to height above something, never just height. That is, they always specify if it is "measured vertically" above the "hull" or "gunwale" or "sidelights" or something.

I find it disturbing that this is not more clear.

I find it disturbing that there is this much confusion even among divers/boaters.
Would someone please clarify the international code book so I can understand/interpret it correctly. All this confusion over size and shape, whats to learn?

 

[lowviz]

It seems it has evolved (deteriorated) to that. As I've said before, the intent of my original post was simply to find out where to buy a 1 meter high Alpha Flag. I figured non-expert (layman) shoppers could answer that adequately.

I had no intentions of questioning or polling people about the law, since I thought I understood it. If you read back, you will see that I have submitted my question to the USCG, Navigation Department for their reading and reference.

-apologies.

 

[Oxy]

Just for thought!
I think a hardcopy of this thread would suffice in any court to prove reasonable attempt beyond all doubt to comply.

 

[rollerboi]

Typing in "3 foot nautical flag" in google turns up a bunch of websites that carry them.

One of those websites even states:
Nautical flags can be purchased individually or in sets. Signal flag and pennant set prices are determined by the size of the flags. For example, a full set of 3-foot by 3-foot and 2-foot by 6-foot signal flags cost about $1,000. A 3-foot by 5-foot National Ensign, however, can be purchased for about $30. Shops ashore and many online venues sell nautical flags.

This gives me the impression that there is indeed a set of signal flags that are 1 meter high (following the rough approximation of 1 meter = 3 ft).

 

[DiveBZ]

I studied law before I got into Police Work, and I can tell you that just from the excerpts, it seems to be painfully obvious that the code section Waterskier is citing seems to require a flag size, not a position thereof.

That being said, I will be completely honest with you. Having worked Marine Patrol, the size, even in open waters, has never been the issue or the attraction to board or otherwise deter/detain/stop any vessel.

As far as I know, none of the CG boats here have ever made a temporary detention stop on a vessel for the size of the flag. They are more concerned with the fact that it flies at all.

Not saying don't obey the law - just that your almost worried about whether or not the tire pressure in your car tires is low enough to get a ticket. Yes, the law states they should be inflated to a safe level. Find me one Officer that has ever stopped a vehicle for low tire pressure.

Again, I realize you are attempting to follow the codes to the letter, for that I commend you. I'm just adding my .02

EDIT: Here, by the way, leaving a vessel unmanned, while anchored or moored, especially near a populated waterway, could easily have resulted in cut-and-tow at the discretion of the Officer.

 

[String]

You can buy alpha flags in any size from any chandlers.

The american only "diver" flag isnt recognised legally in most of the world whereas the "A" flag is.

American "dive" flag has no legal meaning here whereas a vessel failing to take note of an Alpha flag is liable to prosecution.

 

[Waterskier1]

Well, the USCG was supposed to respond within 72 hours, and they haven't so I just called them. The watchstander was familiar with my question, as my email as made it's rounds and it was ultimately referred to a "subject matter expert". Apparently, even the Coast Guard didn't find this a an easy answer.

They told me that I should hear by tomorrow morning. I'll let you all know what I find out.