All these dive accidents are making me wonder....

[MXGratefulDiver]

How do you know when you are "ready" ..

- when taking a reg out of your mouth and replacing it with a different reg isn't a big deal
- when removing and replacing your mask isn't something you dread
- when you can ascend while sharing air, maintain a controlled ascent rate, and stop when you want to
- when you can stop and maintain your buoyancy without finning
- when you can descend without crashing into the bottom and consistently hold your safety stop on the ascent

... then you are (minimally) "ready" to progress from OW to whatever next class you should choose ... these are all skills you supposedly "mastered" in your OW class ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

- when taking a reg out of your mouth and replacing it with a different reg isn't a big deal
- when removing and replacing your mask isn't something you dread
- when you can ascend while sharing air, maintain a controlled ascent rate, and stop when you want to
- when you can stop and maintain your buoyancy without finning
- when you can descend without crashing into the bottom and consistently hold your safety stop on the ascent

Judging from some Fundamentals classes I've seen or read about, these may challenge people even a long ways from their OW class.

 

[freewillie]

How do we judge our own skill levels and comfort? Some of us may be overly cautious. Others may over estimate their level of skill and competence. While the latter is more likely to encounter a dangerous situation, the bottom line we are engaging in an inherently dangerous sport that can have serious accidents and even death.

When I first started diving I signed up for my DAN insurance. One of the first publications I received from DAN in their publications was a memorial issue on Wes Skiles. I would question any poster if they feel they are as good or a better a diver. Yet on what was reported to be a simple routine dive he died of a scuba related accident.

I did not find out the specifics, but even the most experienced of us can have something go horribly wrong during a simple dive.

That being said, we should all strive to minimize our risk every time we get in the water. Adhere to a strict predive safety protocol. Plan your dive, dive your plan. Do not dive in situations that are outside of your skill and training.

Pray to God nothing freaky happens.

Always have fun. Don't forget to smile, after all that's why we dive.

 

[ThomasScherrer]

diving <-> driving
in diving we are a rather small community well organized and well informed,
every time someone dies or get hurt we hear about it, even world wide.
This may be why it looks like alot of accidents, heck YES even 1 accident is 1 too many !

if it was the same thing with driving we would fill up the internet servers every day with death stories
and all sorts of other bad news.

I think the same mistakes are made in driving and diving causing fatal end:

not focused
ignoring erly warnings
performing over own level
taking chances
doing things too fast
bad or wrong desition in case of problems
equipment fail
forgot to check equipment before use
lack of service
unexperianced
just bad luck, in case all other things are perfected
poor education level
poor traning

 

[MikeBell]

IMHO you are "ready" if you practice regularly. This means you need at least one other like-minded individual - your dive buddy. Ideally you have a whole bunch of like-minded divers in the area. Near the end of a dive when we are doing our safety stop I often signal my buddy YOU-WATCH-ME. He then knows that I am going to have some type of mishap. I usually go OOA. Next, I signal I-WATCH-YOU. So, he goes OOA. Sometimes for a change (where the bottom is at about 15-20 ft) I dump the air from my BC and sink down the the bottom where I lie "unconscious." When my kids start to dive and after they learn to do a rescue I plan to have a heart attack on every second dive

Edit: MikeBell, welcome to SB!

That is both excellent and terrible! Haha That's great, if I had a much more experienced buddy who was able to do that, I would welcome it. Getting used to dealing with those situations, real or not would be great. I would like to get to a level in which there is no panic, only action. Also, thanks for the welcome

Back to the ready comment, I meant more about AOW classes. I think classes are the most ideal to become "ready". They are still controlled (to an extent). You have 1 or 2 or however many senior divers with you to help you through issues and answers to questions you may have. I felt more comfortable on my dives after my OW certification because they were with senior divers and I was able to further practice some skills.

Everybody could be "ready". It just takes training and repetition. The problem is that people tend to not get much of either.

I would agree, even from my limited experience. Dive often, safely and within your experience level. I was glad to take my AOW class two weeks after my OW class. It was worth it for me, it solidified some skills that I would have forgotten if I didn't dive for a month+ afterwards.

How do you know when you are "ready" ..

- when taking a reg out of your mouth and replacing it with a different reg isn't a big deal
- when removing and replacing your mask isn't something you dread
- when you can ascend while sharing air, maintain a controlled ascent rate, and stop when you want to
- when you can stop and maintain your buoyancy without finning
- when you can descend without crashing into the bottom and consistently hold your safety stop on the ascent

... then you are (minimally) "ready" to progress from OW to whatever next class you should choose ... these are all skills you supposedly "mastered" in your OW class ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Yes, that's the plan right? but for myself (and a number of other people) you learn through repetition. Then you question, is 5 dives enough for the OW cert? From your above post - I would say no way. I'm not sure of many people who "master" those skills in their OW class. Would PADI change the requirements? I doubt it, which leads into placing divers with OW certs that aren't comfortable in the water.

For me - Reg replacement wasn't a big deal, stopping and maintaining buoyancy wasn't either (if I'm properly weighted), ascending and descending in a controlled fashion I was comfortable with. Mask replacement, I dreaded a little but that's because, in 44f water, taking your mask off isn't a pleasant experience! (the actual skill wasn't a big deal either). Though if you asked me prior to my AOW class if I was a master some of these, I would have doubted it.

Also, I have plans to take the Rescue diver course when I return home. It's one course that from every person who has taken it, said it's the best course they ever took. Until then, I am just travelling around, getting experience under my weight belt and trying to "master" every skill that may one day save my life in a bad situation.

 

[DevonDiver]

[-]in diving[/-] On Scubaboard we are a rather small community well organized and well informed,
every time someone dies or get hurt we hear about it, even world wide.

Edited for accuracy

Your comment does not apply to the vast majority of people holding scuba diving certifications.

This may be why it looks like alot of accidents, heck YES even 1 accident is 1 too many !

It tends to be something that shocks novice divers. Entry-level scuba courses, and most instructors, deliberately shy away from discussing these issues with trainees.

Experienced divers, and people with a broader understanding of statistics, understand that the frequency of accidents is relatively small when compared to the total number of dives conducted in any given time-scale.

 

[DevonDiver]

Yes, that's the plan right? but for myself (and a number of other people) you learn through repetition. Then you question, is 5 dives enough for the OW cert? From your above post - I would say no way. I'm not sure of many people who "master" those skills in their OW class. Would PADI change the requirements? I doubt it, which leads into placing divers with OW certs that aren't comfortable in the water.

There's a big difference between learning a skill and ingraining a skill.

An OW course teaches the skill. It doesn't condition the diver to a stage where the skill is ingrained in muscle memory (repetition).

However, once the skill is known... there's no reason why any diver shouldn't continue their practice to ingrain that skill in their own time.

Whether that happens depends entirely on the mindset of the individual diver, but is also influenced by the way that the instructor concerned delivers the course.

If an OW course was extended to ensure that all skills were permanently ingrained, then it would basically be an open-ended course and would probably require 20+ dives. Unaffordable to many...and beyond the timescale of anyone seeking to learn during a vacation. It'd kill the scuba industry as you know it - dive centres in resort areas would close down, demand for diving would increase - as would prices. Scuba diving would cease to be an accessible and affordable past-time for many people.

Refining, practising and ingraining skills is the responsibility of the individual.

 

[Rich Keller]

I do not think common sense or OW divers are the issue. In the six months I have been on this site every death notice I have seen with one exception has involved some sort of tech diving. Some are cave divers, deep divers, wreck divers, rebreather divers or some combination. Most if not all involve nitrox or trimixed gas. The threads discussing these deaths are all remarkably the same. The diver was very experienced, had state of the art equipment, they talk about what might have happened, they all end up agreeing it must have been a pre existing medical problem, you never end up hearing what really happened when the autopsy is done, someone always comes on to say he knew the diver and that diver knew it all. The East Hampton morgue is filling up with divers who knew it all. Are you REALLY sure you know it all?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I do not think common sense or OW divers are the issue. In the six months I have been on this site every death notice I have seen with one exception has involved some sort of tech diving. Some are cave divers, deep divers, wreck divers, rebreather divers or some combination. Most if not all involve nitrox or trimixed gas. The threads discussing these deaths are all remarkably the same. The diver was very experienced, had state of the art equipment, they talk about what might have happened, they all end up agreeing it must have been a medical problem, you never end up hearing what really happened when the autopsy is done and someone always comes on to say he knew the diver and that diver knew it all. The East Hampton morgue is filling up with divers who knew it all. Are you REALLY sure you know it all?

Are you reading the same ScubaBoard as the rest of us?

Hmmm ... skimming the most recent 10 threads in the Incidents and Accidents forum ... only one out of 10 involved tech divers.

- AOW student dies in training: Alberta ... recreational
- Father and son run over by dive charter ... recreational
- 2 more upper keys dive fatalities ... recreational
- three divers rescued in the St. Lawrence ... tech
- Yukon mishap ... recreational
- incident on Spiegel ... recreational
- tragedies and happiness ... commercial
- Diver dies after dive in Grand Caymen ... recreational
- Hollywood, FL accident ... recreational
- Body found in Lake Tahoe ... historical (accident occurred in 1994)

Are you sure you're not confusing ScubaBoard with The Deco Stop?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Rich Keller]

I do not study the Incidents and Accidents but I did check just now.

Alberta, "Northwest Scuba would not say what kind of dive the man was doing."
Yucon, Ship wreck penetration at 100'
Spiegel, Ship wreck penetration at 93'
Lake Tahoe, Diver last seen at 130', found at 265'

Tragedy & Happiness, Trapped at 70' for 4 days, lost one out of three.
Would your equipment and gas plan cover this?