AIR2 'legal' outside US ?

[Scott L]

I know you're just joking around so this isn't really directed at you but at the general attitude I sometimes see on here. Why do people really care what other people dive with?

If I see a guy diving with no tank but a duffle bag full of spare airs then that's his concern, maybe he knows something I don't.

The only 2 set ups I care about are my own and my buddies (if I have one). If I don't like something about his kit (i.e. I think it is un-safe then I don't dive with them-which has yet to happen)

I always enjoy checking out other peoples set ups on the way out to the site. It is interesting to see what people find useful.

6 0f 8 of my normal dive buddies utilize Air2's and standard length primary regulator hoses and during every pre-dive equipment gear up I stare at those set-ups with much contempt. Who would most of you rather team up with, a DIR diver with normal BCD inflator hose, necklace secured backup regulator and 4-7 foot primary regulator hose or a Air2 diver who in most cases accepts a more problematic rescue just to save one LP hose running from their first stage? The truly laughable point of all this is all my buddies and most of AIR2 users are utlizing jacket BCD's which creates expodientially more drag than the non-exsistant LP hose and second stage missing from their kit.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

6 0f 8 of my normal dive buddies utilize Air2's and standard length primary regulator hoses and during every pre-dive equipment gear up I stare at those set-ups with much contempt. Who would most of you rather team up with, a DIR diver with normal BCD inflator hose, necklace secured backup regulator and 4-7 foot primary regulator hose or a Air2 diver who in most cases accepts a more problematic rescue just to save one LP hose running from their first stage? The truly laughable point of all this is all my buddies and most of AIR2 users are utlizing jacket BCD's which creates expodientially more drag than the non-exsistant LP hose and second stage missing from their kit.

......perhaps those AIR2 thingy's SHOULD be made illegal though ???

Perhaps they should. And, if either of you feel strongly enough about it, you should start with the NOAA Dive Center. I'm sure that they would love to be set straight. Since, they were probably just unaware how dangerous these devices are when they just recently decided to switch from the Sherwood Shadow inflater/octo, that they've been using for quite a while, to the Atomic SS1.

Here, you can read all about it. NOAA NDC newsletter, August 2009. (PDF format) I believe there's a contact name there if you'd like to call.

While you're doing that, can we get back to the OP's topic. It's far more interesting than yet another "debate" about other peoples legitimate (whether you think so or not) equipment configuration.

 

[WD8CDH]

QUOTE=WD8CDH;4796409]Is Isreal specific about the Air2 or any second stage/BC inflator combo? What about no power inflation at all?

You must have an octopus, not a combination second stage/inflater.

I could not imagine anyone not having a power inflater in Israel. All the equipment I have seen is modern standard/models - like you would see here. Beyond that, I could not answer your question - which is a curious one to me. I suppose you could blow up your old horsecollar my mouth, if you wanted. But you'd still need an octopus. Just a guess on my part, but I'm laughing as I write this.

By the way, I have never been bothered by the government scuba police (IDA), nor have any of my Israeli Instructor friends. But, there are random checks on shops - things like looking at the equipment, and making sure that your certification card is kept by the dive/air shop while you are diving. Truly - no card, no fill - but they will do a computer (ie PADI, etc) check for those who have misplace theirs.

P.S. No one will let an obviously pregnant woman dive either - my DrDaughter (MD) - who knew better anyway, snorkeled with Mommy while the rest of us went diving!!! Is this the scuba policing you were talking about?

DrDaddy[/QUOTE]

Hi DrDaddy,

More curious as to the actual wording of the regulation. While I have gone thru several successive dives without touching the power inflator, I don't go without one, even though I am trained and experienced in buoyancy control without a BC. (yes, I am old)

I hope that they don't specify an octo as the only choice. I haven'y used one for decades. If it's deeper than a swimming pool, I will have a full redundant regulator either on the second post of the manifold or occasionally on a pony. I would hate to see regulations forcing only a less safe option.

 

[Scott L]

Perhaps they should. And, if either of you feel strongly enough about it, you should start with the NOAA Dive Center. I'm sure that they would love to be set straight. Since, they were probably just unaware how dangerous these devices are when they just recently decided to switch from the Sherwood Shadow inflater/octo, that they've been using for quite a while, to the Atomic SS1.

Here, you can read all about it. NOAA NDC newsletter, August 2009. (PDF format) I believe there's a contact name there if you'd like to call.

While you're doing that, can we get back to the OP's topic. It's far more interesting than yet another "debate" about other peoples legitimate (whether you think so or not) equipment configuration.

That was settled about 15 posts ago. Apperently only Israel. Your NOAA memo is no less off topic but I will read it and be back in a bit.

 

[Thalassamania]

Air2 is illegal to dive with in Israel. The Israel Dive Authority (IDA) requires that you use an octopus. This is not a rumor, it is true. I have been diving Red Sea/Israel many times and my son is a PADI Instructor trained in Israel.

If you have a Air2, you will also have to mount an octopus. The ISA is a government institution and does enforce it's laws.

My thoughts about an Air2 is that it does illuminate a hose, but at a cost. In an out of air buddy dive situation, the Air2 must be used for both an inflater and regulator, which increases complications in a very stressful environment. I have one, tried it out, and will no longer use it.

Another comment about the IDA. If you are a DM or Instructor, and you want to work in Israel, you must pass an exam and be issued a license to teach.

Is this legal in Israel?

 

[Scott L]

Perhaps they should. And, if either of you feel strongly enough about it, you should start with the NOAA Dive Center. I'm sure that they would love to be set straight. Since, they were probably just unaware how dangerous these devices are when they just recently decided to switch from the Sherwood Shadow inflater/octo, that they've been using for quite a while, to the Atomic SS1.

Here, you can read all about it. NOAA NDC newsletter, August 2009. (PDF format) I believe there's a contact name there if you'd like to call.

While you're doing that, can we get back to the OP's topic. It's far more interesting than yet another "debate" about other peoples legitimate (whether you think so or not) equipment configuration.

So I guess you are declaring NOAA to the the definative and last word on equipment selection. Interestingly the LCDR begun diving 4 years after me and has about 1500 less dives. Be that as it may, I am certainly not ready to annoint NOAA the final word on gear selection. I just checked with the WKPP project who accomplishes 14,000ft linear cave penerations in depths exceding 300ft and I cannot detect any divers with the new Atomic inflator gizmo. Lastly, as much as I dislike the Air2 it looks a hell of a lot better designed than that neon yellow low bid contraption. Hey, I mean all of it but it's actually all in good fun and by the way I am not a GUE lemming.

 

[drdaddy]

Is this legal in Israel?

My goodness, what is that? I've got some old weird stuff around, but what is that?

Anyway, I'm feeling a little uncomfortable. I just started out answering the question of the OP. There is a place where Air2(3) or whatevers are illegal, and that is Israel.

I'm not an expert on the Israel Dive Authority. I have been diving there many times and my son's PADI Instructor training resulting in his doing 700+ dives as an instructor took place there. I sure wish someone from somewhere else would come up with why the OP was told that Air2 is not allowed in some countries, since we all could only come up with one.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

So I guess you are declaring NOAA to the the definative and last word on equipment selection. Interestingly the LCDR begun diving 4 years after me and has about 1500 less dives. Be that as it may, I am certainly not ready to annoint NOAA the final word on gear selection. I just checked with the WKPP project who accomplishes 14,000ft linear cave penerations in depths exceding 300ft and I cannot detect any divers with the new Atomic inflator gizmo. Lastly, as much as I dislike the Air2 it looks a hell of a lot better designed than that neon yellow low bid contraption. Hey, I mean all of it but it's actually all in good fun and by the way I am not a GUE lemming.

Consider this. We don't know if Israel has a regulation forbidding integrated octo's, but if they do, there's a better than average chance it would be based on forbidding "non-standard" equipment. . . So, while you're busy bragging about how long your hose is, and how deep you can penetrate a cavern, that set-up may be illegal as well.

And for the record, the SS1 also comes in red and blue, if yellow clashes with your outfit.

 

[Scott L]

Consider this. We don't know if Israel has a regulation forbidding integrated octo's, but if they do, there's a better than average chance it would be based on forbidding "non-standard" equipment. . . So, while you're busy bragging about how long your hose is, and how deep you can penetrate a cavern, that set-up may be illegal as well.

And for the record, the SS1 also comes in red and blue, if yellow clashes with your outfit.

Touche! I have read many times on this forum of the issues with the Air2 in Israel. I hate endless speculation and will e-mail the question to the proper authorites tomorrow and report back. Fortunately one of my clients speaks, reads and writes in Hebrew if that becomes neccessary. Scott

P.S. I am not a cave diver only cavern certified and not an expert on any level.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

Touche! I have read many times on this forum of the issues with the Air2 in Israel. I hate endless speculation and will e-mail the question to the proper authorites tomorrow and report back. Fortunately one of my clients speaks, reads and writes in Hebrew if that becomes neccessary. Scott

P.S. I am not a cave diver only cavern certified and not an expert on any level.

I hope you have better luck than I did. I tried searching the web. And when that failed, I called down to my neighbor in Mexico, who's an Israeli-American expatriate living in Cozumel (say that 3x's fast) and asked him. His answer, and I'm quoting him, was "we have a diving authority in Israel?" So, obviously he was of no help in this matter.