Air Fill Argument

[J.R.]

This is conjecture on your part and thus remains baseless.

Ummm... not to put to fine a point on it... but, my friend Reefhound, ... yer' arguements are founded out of an in depth first person experience and go beyond 'conjecture' exactly how?

One more time... in the big wide cruel world of 'stuff' suppliers there are 'good guys'... and there are 'bad guys'... I don't think the internet dudes or the LDS junkies would disagree... so why the obcession (other than the fact it makes a good arguement)... with trying to tar the whole of one side or the other with a broad brush?

... and if we're agreed on the above... let's back off the generalizations... its just gas on a tired fire... er... train wreck.

Oh... and 2 words...

1: Grey
2: Market

It exists... anybody ever hear the story of the Hong Kong shop that was making jeans under contract for Levi Strauss during the day... and the same jeans under the same label for themselves at night? Ever look at where a lot of your stuff is made? Wanna' lay any bets that the quality control of what gets produced at night may not necessarily be up to snuff with what got put out during the day????

... and then there are the "counterfitters"... let's see... how about the M-1 tank contract where bolts bought as a high tinsle strength grade turned out to be medium grade bolts with high grade markings...

... the list goes on... and the thing is... MAYBE ya' get good gear... MAYBE ya' don't... I'm not inclined to find out at depth... but, hey... call me 'Crazy Rev. Jim'... but... well that's just me.

... AND... to head off this one... buying from a reputable internet dealer DOES NOT MEAN that you're necessarily getting 2nd rate goods... but... do you KNOW... ??? Would you feel as comfortable buying from some internet store that didn't have a brick and morter presence and answered every order with "We're temporarily out of stock... but ship as soon as it comes in." Huh, wood-ja'????

There are a million tales of counterfeits and knockoffs in the big cruel world... and it goes far beyond $5.00 Rolexes...


OHHHH... and let's not forget the counterfeit computer chip in the Space Shuttle story... THAT was interesting news a while back... ANYTHING, if there's a buck in it... is subject to conterfeiting and knockoff... BUYER BEWARE!!!

 

[tbeindit]

Most areas do not have anywhere else to get air fills except at local dive stores. One person brought up fire departments. If they do that's great, but often the only tanks they will fill are their own and their rescue divers so it is an almost useless resource in many areas. It's the old argument, whether you would want typically lower prices, possibly a wider selection of gear, or you can go to a dive shop and get gear you are "almost" guarrenteed will be good and often you get the social positives. What I mean by social positives is that you find new dive buddies, new areas to dive, and also may find a new class going that is interesting thus increasing your knowledge and probably your safety while diving. It's all about what the customer is looking for, God bless America, the land of choices! (unless Liberals are there!)

 

[ReefHound]

Ummm... not to put to fine a point on it... but, my friend Reefhound, ... yer' arguements are founded out of an in depth first person experience and go beyond 'conjecture' exactly how?

Ummm, I'm not the one making allegations that the stuff is knockoffs coming from overseas and is unsafe to dive.

One more time... in the big wide cruel world of 'stuff' suppliers there are 'good guys'... and there are 'bad guys'... I don't think the internet dudes or the LDS junkies would disagree... so why the obcession (other than the fact it makes a good arguement)... with trying to tar the whole of one side or the other with a broad brush?

I didn't broadbrush anyone, I responded to a post by someone claiming to be a LDS manager who engaged in the typical anti-online scare tactics.

1: Grey
2: Market

It exists... anybody ever hear the story of the Hong Kong shop that was making jeans under contract for Levi Strauss during the day... and the same jeans under the same label for themselves at night? Ever look at where a lot of your stuff is made? Wanna' lay any bets that the quality control of what gets produced at night may not necessarily be up to snuff with what got put out during the day????

And as I said, such allegations are baseless UNTIL someone can present hard EVIDENCE that this is what LP is selling. There has been NO evidence presented that the regs sold by LP are IN ANY WAY of different origin or lesser quality than the ones at your LDS. Any number of people can blather endlessly but it remains BASELESS until there is EVIDENCE.

... and then there are the "counterfitters"... let's see... how about the M-1 tank contract where bolts bought as a high tinsle strength grade turned out to be medium grade bolts with high grade markings...

Such comments are baseless implications until proven.

... AND... to head off this one... buying from a reputable internet dealer DOES NOT MEAN that you're necessarily getting 2nd rate goods... but... do you KNOW... ???

Do you ever know for sure about anything?

Would you feel as comfortable buying from some internet store that didn't have a brick and morter presence and answered every order with "We're temporarily out of stock... but ship as soon as it comes in." Huh, wood-ja'????

That's not what we're talking about here, is it? Straw man.

 

[J.R.]

OK... NOW FOR THE REAL SPOOK STORY...

http://www.**********/news/industry/i051004.html

Yep... in Thailand they're selling fake PADI dive cards... so NOW we gotta ask ourselves... "Is the insta-buddy they teamed me with REALLY a qualified diver... or did he just get back from Thailand???"

Ummm... the words "**********" are supposed to go where all those asterisk'z are... must be some protection software on the list....

DRAT... IT EVEN INTERCEPTED THAT... WUZZ'UP WITH THIS???

 

[redacted]

... AND... to head off this one... buying from a reputable internet dealer DOES NOT MEAN that you're necessarily getting 2nd rate goods... but... do you KNOW... ??? Would you feel as comfortable buying from some internet store that didn't have a brick and morter presence and answered every order with "We're temporarily out of stock... but ship as soon as it comes in." Huh, wood-ja'????

This has come up a couple times now. What scuba internet stores do not have a brick & mortar presence? I don't believe I know of any.

 

[Hoosier]

OK... NOW FOR THE REAL SPOOK STORY...

http://www.**********/news/industry/i051004.html

Yep... in Thailand they're selling fake PADI dive cards... so NOW we gotta ask ourselves... "Is the insta-buddy they teamed me with REALLY a qualified diver... or did he just get back from Thailand???"

It isn't a surprising story. In U.S. some colleges and universities are selling a fake Ph.D. degree. You know how many colleges and universities are in U.S.? Even, there are a lot of colleges I neve heard in Hoosier land. ......

 

[dschulte]

Wow, this has become one big circular argument. I have seen crap purchased off the Internet brought into the store I DM at. I have read other SB member's accounts of Internet fraud and problems with retailers; horror LDS stories and countless other shark tales and truths. But I guess until it happens to you and you open that new reg and find a knockoff part from tialand sitting where a factory part should be, I guess you will call everyone a strawman. I tap out, shop where you want, bash who you want, just dive safe and promote the sport.
:monkeydan

 

[robertarak]

.... for those who could not get passed the *******



For sale in Thailand: Boys, girls and fake PADI scuba diving licenses

Powered by CDNN - CYBER DIVER News Network

BANGKOK (4 Oct 2005) -- Anything is available in Bangkok for a price: women, men, children, endangered species, drugs, counterfeit drugs, DVDs -- and passports, ready in two hours for just 10,000 baht (245 dollars).
Forged travel documents are readily and affordable available on Bangkok streets, according to one man who sells forged student identity cards in the city's bustling tourist district.
And security analysts say that for higher sums, much better counterfeits can be obtained.
The attention of the world's intelligence services is again on Thailand after British police announced they had begun extradition proceedings for an Algerian man arrested in Bangkok in late August with 180 fake passports.
"Thailand is recognised as a centre for forgery, but false documents are produced throughout the world, including in Albania, Dubai (and) Singapore," Britain's National Criminal Intelligence Service said in its latest threat assessment from serious and organized crime.
Between February 2004 and August 2005, some 1,275 counterfeit passports had been seized and 12 foreigners arrested in separate incidents in Thailand. Most arrests occurred in Bangkok. In June, a French woman was arrested on Thailand's resort island of Samui for selling stolen French passports on Bangkok streets for 40,000 to 50,000 baht (1,000 to 1,250 dollars) each.
Punishment for possession of a fake Thai passport, by either a vendor or a customer, is up to 10 years in prison. Possession of a fake passport from another country is punishable by up to five years, and both offenses carry up to a 50,000 baht (about 1,200 dollar) fine.
On Khao San Road, the Thai capital's heaving backpacker strip, a young Thai man who sells fake student and press cards claimed he could get a fake passport for 10,000 baht (about 245 dollars).
"Any," the short-haired man in a t-shirt said, when asked which countries he had passports for. He claimed he only needed two hours.
A police officer attached to a Western embassy in Bangkok, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the man could be telling the truth, but cautioned the quality may be poor as a passport needed for international travel was likely to be more expensive.
"The quality of the documentation depends on how much money an individual is prepared to pay, but at the high end it is generally considered to be very good," Rand Corporation's Chalk said.
"A lot of use is made of genuine passports that are doctored for the client. Most are either sold by backpackers who have run into financial difficulties or simply stolen."

Features that reveal a fake passport include the quality of paper and ink used, peeling laminate, spelling mistakes or variations in print details, and missing pages, the Western police officer said.
"You get what you pay for," the officer added.
If the passport was being used to travel internationally for immigration, complete with visa seals and biometric data, it would cost "a lot more than 10,000 baht," the officer said.
Other forms of identification are much cheaper. A man sporting jeans, a black T-shirt and a short pony tail sells fake student cards on Khao San Road that sell for 250 baht (6.10 dollars).
He makes the cards in a small shop down a back lane, where he works beside a large fridge stocked with Thai beer and soft drinks.
Sitting beneath photographs of the Thai king and queen, he taps on a type writer a customer's name, university and date of birth, and offered to extend the validity to two years, saying it would not cost extra.
He stuck a photograph onto the card then covered it with a plastic wrap containing a student organisation's metallic logo decal.
He handed over a blue plastic bag full of dozens of fake drivers licenses and identity cards of various quality and organisations including Interpol, the United Nations and the US Federal Bureau of Investigation.
One read "Interpol department of terrorism" (sic), while the FBI card included a fake thumb print on the reverse and the words "licensed to carry fire arm" in red type.
Several drivers licenses were from Malaysia, Singapore, Canadian provinces and Australian states, but lacked obvious marks of the genuine article.
In a few minutes, the man returned the card and offered discounts for large quantities and for scuba diving licenses. He said cards were sealed with a hot iron.
Asked if he could make a fake passport, he shook his head, gripped one wrist with the other hand like handcuffs, made the noise of handcuffs snapping shut, and laughed.

 

[GeorgeC]

If the LDS goes out of business divers will be forced to cut out the middle man (LDS) and go directly to the source. The source being the gas shops that supply welding/medical/food service gas to the world. Where does the LDS get He or O2? I am sure he does not distill it himself. He has to purchase it from a gas supply company.

When the LDS goes belly up there will be a void that must be filled. (No pun intended) The entrepreneurial spirit will kick in gas companies will step to the plate and will start filling SCUBA tanks.

 

[ReefHound]

Wow, this has become one big circular argument. I have seen crap purchased off the Internet brought into the store I DM at. I have read other SB member's accounts of Internet fraud and problems with retailers; horror LDS stories and countless other shark tales and truths. But I guess until it happens to you and you open that new reg and find a knockoff part from tialand sitting where a factory part should be, I guess you will call everyone a strawman. I tap out, shop where you want, bash who you want, just dive safe and promote the sport.
:monkeydan

There's the typical LDS scare tactic, vague allusions to fraud and counterfeiting, absolutely no substance to back it up. Just baseless fearmongering thrown out there to plant a seed of doubt. The intelligent reader will note that despite the countless bloviating posts not a shred of evidence has been introduced. The intelligent reader also knows the term "strawman" applies to an argument, not a person.