Air Fill Argument

[NadMat]

A good LDS beats the crap out of purchasing over the internet, even a great internet shop like scubatoys. I purchase both online and locally, but always give one of my LDS's (My money goes to several) a shot at my purchase.

I can only speak for Central Texas shops, those in Austin in particular, it may be different where you are. But the shops around here are involved in the local diving scene, setting up different fun dive events such as underwater pumpkin carving contests for halloween, new years dives for those willing to brave the chilly winter waters, lake cleanup events, and many other fun, free dives.

So when possible I purchase locally. But I am not willing to be raped to do so, if their prices seem out of line I will tell them so. I got my new BC at a LDS for same price as leisurepro price before shipping, and have a factory warranty on it that Leisurepro could not have offered me. As a matter of fact, most of the prices I pay at LDS are comparable to internet pricing, or if list is higher, and they cannot meet pricing on that particular item, will include value added services such as free air card or discount on other gear I may need. Plus I get to chat with all the friendly folk face to face (and my experience locally is that of friendly dive shop owners and personel)

From some of the posts here I feel I must be very fortunate to live here where there are at least half a dozen nearby shops to compete for my divin' dollars, it must really suck to have only one dive shop in a couple hundred miles to go to, regardless of how they treat you. For those people the Internet shops are a good alternative, and you can purchase a compressor setup online as well and say screw the shop totally. I still prefer to walk in and talk with the guy rebuilding my regs or servicing other equipment, as well as being able to hold the item I am interested in my hands before buying.

And of course there is always the 'instant gratification' factor of walking in, seeing, desiring and purchasing a new toy and then taking it out and trying it, all in same day, sometimes with shop personel coming along just for shot at a fun dive and some feedback on the equipment they are selling.

Just my 2psi, of course. opinions are like buttholes, we all have 'em, and everyone elses stinks

 

[ReefHound]

seasports scuba

Sea Sports Scuba, I'm familiar with them. Their policy is 12 free air fills with purchase of a scuba tank. You get an airfill card and they punch it with each fill. If you're getting lifetime free air, it is "off the record". Are you a DM or instructor there? Personal friend of the manager?

 

[Cacia]

You probably have a fire department though...

hmmm, I shall ponder this. I like firemen. I know some...

There are some people that are better off not being our customers

yes, I have agreed with that, essentially.
It's best if people who can figure out a better way don't come in there and gripe...they should just move along to alternatives and be happy and leave the dive shop employees alone, they are just trying to make a living.

I still prefer to walk in a talk with the guy rebuilding my regs or servicing other equipment

I can do that..the lds is just the middle man, they all outsource to the same two guys and tack on their cut.

 

[dschulte]

So show us the base.

Where do YOU think they get them? This has been covered in depth. The manufacturers may pay lip service to disallowing internet sales but do little to stop it. There are very few "pure internet retailers" and LP gets them in too large of quantities on a too consistent basis for it to be anything but direct. Not to mention that they somehow have the latest and greatest products right from their release date.

Whatever channel, no one has EVER offered any evidence that the regs are counterfeits manufactured by anyone other than the brand manufacturer. Raising doubts to the quality of manufacture or the parts inside them IS a scare tactic, always and completely baseless.

Besides, scuba life exists beyond Scubapro and Aqualung.

They get them from store closings, overseas sources (this is a prevalent method for ebay stores) or they work through a LDS breaking the retailer’s sales agreement. Spend some time reading some warranty information relating to location of purchase. Not just ScubaPro and Aqualung, but OMS, Atomic, Suunto, Apeks and Aeris. Others require authorized purchase locations to submit the vendor portion of the warranty card to activate the warranty. If you purchase something online and the paperwork is not done properly, they you have no warranty rather or not the online retailer is authorized seller or not. ScubaPro published a letter noting that Leisure Pro is not a supported retailer, so long to the lifetime parts. If you do not dive any of these products or do not care about warranty coverage, great; but do not say that LDS’s use scare tactics and disinformation when they are simply passing industry information onto their customers and potential customers.

I have not come across a counterfeit regulator, but have seen some come back from Leisure Pro with non-factory parts in them as well as a “new” regulator from Amazon with non-factory parts. eBay is full of products with issues, but that is the nature of that resource, especially if you save a buck by purchasing from a private or Asia location (there are several Hong Kong based ebay stores with fantastic prices on gear). There are also a good deal of factory refurbished units out there. LP is known to have sold them and actually advertises them if you catch the small print; they can not be the only eRetailer with refurbs.

I have shopped at a number of LDS’s up and down the East coast and have not come across the hard-nose, vicious retailers the you and several others have described. All have been accommodating and willing to work with the customer. Yeah there are some jerks out there that feel MSRP is the law and nothing you can say will change that, I have not found those individuals. If that is what you are use to dealing with then I understand your general hostility toward the LDS.
:monkeydan

 

[dschulte]

A good LDS beats the crap out of purchasing over the internet, even a great internet shop like scubatoys. I purchase both online and locally, but always give one of my LDS's (My money goes to several) a shot at my purchase.

I can only speak for Central Texas shops, those in Austin in particular, it may be different where you are. But the shops around here are involved in the local diving scene, setting up different fun dive events such as underwater pumpkin carving contests for halloween, new years dives for those willing to brave the chilly winter waters, lake cleanup events, and many other fun, free dives.

So when possible I purchase locally. But I am not willing to be raped to do so, if their prices seem out of line I will tell them so. I got my new BC at a LDS for same price as leisurepro price before shipping, and have a factory warranty on it that Leisurepro could not have offered me. As a matter of fact, most of the prices I pay at LDS are comparable to internet pricing, or if list is higher, and they cannot meet pricing on that particular item, will include value added services such as free air card or discount on other gear I may need. Plus I get to chat with all the friendly folk face to face (and my experience locally is that of friendly dive shop owners and personel)

From some of the posts here I feel I must be very fortunate to live here where there are at least half a dozen nearby shops to compete for my divin' dollars, it must really suck to have only one dive shop in a couple hundred miles to go to, regardless of how they treat you. For those people the Internet shops are a good alternative, and you can purchase a compressor setup online as well and say screw the shop totally. I still prefer to walk in a talk with the guy rebuilding my regs or servicing other equipment, as well as being able to hold the item I am interested in my hands before buying.

And of course there is always the 'instant gratification' factor of walking in, seeing, desiring and purchasing a new toy and then taking it out and trying it, all in same day, sometimes with shop personel coming along just for shot at a fun dive and some feedback on the equipment they are selling.

Just my 2psi, of course. opinions are like buttholes, we all have 'em, and everyone elses stinks

Finally a positive LDS response. I have not had a bad experience either and you are on the money for the 'instant gratification factor'.
:monkeydan

 

[redacted]

If you purchase something online and the paperwork is not done properly, they you have no warranty rather or not the online retailer is authorized seller or not. ScubaPro published a letter noting that Leisure Pro is not a supported retailer, so long to the lifetime parts. If you do not dive any of these products or do not care about warranty coverage, great; but do not say that LDS’s use scare tactics and disinformation when they are simply passing industry information onto their customers and potential customers.

Just to be clear, there are exceptions to the "policy" that online sales of products that are not allowed to be sold online do not have mfgr warrenties. When Scubatoys terminated it's authorized dealership for scubapro products and closed out its inventory of scubapro regulators thru online sales, scubapro verified that the mfgr warrenty on those regulators would be honored.

BTW, you seemed to have missed the question on the regulator failure that almost killed you in the thread on Scubatoys. http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=184845 Are you going to answer that?

 

[dschulte]

Just to be clear, there are exceptions to the "policy" that online sales of products that are not allowed to be sold online do not have mfgr warrenties. When Scubatoys terminated it's authorized dealership for scubapro products and closed out its inventory of scubapro regulators thru online sales, scubapro verified that the mfgr warrenty on those regulators would be honored.

BTW, you seemed to have missed the question on the regulator failure that almost killed you in the thread on Scubatoys. http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=184845 Are you going to answer that?

Regarding the Scubatoys and ScubaPro, as long as Scubatoys filled out the warranty card that it was an over-the-counter sale then the warranty is valid. I have spoken with Patty Savinski at ScubaPro on this topic and the company's policy is that all sales must be over-the-counter for honoring of the warranty. If there was an exception great for the, they did it right.

What regulator failure? You must be thinking of someone else; I have never had one.
:monkeydan

 

[NadMat]

You quoted dshulte, who didn't even post in the thread you referenced? There was a mention of a reg problem by puffer fish? Are you confused or am I?

Just to be clear, there are exceptions to the "policy" that online sales of products that are not allowed to be sold online do not have mfgr warrenties. When Scubatoys terminated it's authorized dealership for scubapro products and closed out its inventory of scubapro regulators thru online sales, scubapro verified that the mfgr warrenty on those regulators would be honored.

BTW, you seemed to have missed the question on the regulator failure that almost killed you in the thread on Scubatoys. http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=184845 Are you going to answer that?

 

[ReefHound]

They get them from store closings, overseas sources (this is a prevalent method for ebay stores) or they work through a LDS breaking the retailer’s sales agreement.

This is conjecture on your part and thus remains baseless. It also defies logic given the volume LP does and how they seem to have new releases the instant they hit the street. When so many LDS cannot get their back orders in for weeks, it's amazing how reliable LP's sources are.

Spend some time reading some warranty information relating to location of purchase. Not just ScubaPro and Aqualung, but OMS, Atomic, Suunto, Apeks and Aeris. Others require authorized purchase locations to submit the vendor portion of the warranty card to activate the warranty. If you purchase something online and the paperwork is not done properly, they you have no warranty rather or not the online retailer is authorized seller or not.

First, the post to which I responded and the "scare tactics" issues I mentioned had nothing to do with warranty. This is a strawman argument.

Second, consumer protection laws mandate implied warranty of merchantibility and express warranties exist to *limit* coverage, not extend it. In the absence of an express warranty, implied warranty applies and it is usually much more generous to the consumer. It doesn't carry extras like "free parts" but if there is a manufacturing defect then Scubapro will fix it, Leisure Pro unit or not.

warranty coverage, great; but do not say that LDS’s use scare tactics and disinformation when they are simply passing industry information onto their customers and potential customers.

Enough of the straw man, I never said loss of "free parts for life" was a scare tactic, I'm referring to the implications that the gear is unsafe to dive.

I have not come across a counterfeit regulator, but have seen some come back from Leisure Pro with non-factory parts in them as well as a “new” regulator from Amazon with non-factory parts.

Who makes scuba regulator parts besides the scuba manufacturers?

eBay is full of products with issues, but that is the nature of that resource, especially if you save a buck by purchasing from a private or Asia location (there are several Hong Kong based ebay stores with fantastic prices on gear).

Another straw man, that's not what any of us are talking about.

There are also a good deal of factory refurbished units out there. LP is known to have sold them and actually advertises them if you catch the small print; they can not be the only eRetailer with refurbs.

So explain this to me. If the factory refurbishes them, and the factory refuses to do business with unauthorized dealers, who does the factory sell these refurbished units to? By their own alleged policies, they could only be selling them to authorized dealers, right? So doesn't that make the likelihood of you getting a refurbished unit greater at your LDS than online?

 

[redacted]

What regulator failure? You must be thinking of someone else; I have never had one.
:monkeydan

I'm sorry, different poster. My one track mind has trouble following two threads.

Ref the SP online sales, I think the key was the dealer status when he acquired the inventory. I guess Scubapro doesn't do returns on wholesale products and the mechanism they have for controlling pricing and sales restrictions is their agreement with the dealer which provides for the termination of the dealer agreement.