After 41 years I almost bought it today...

[drbill]

jlayman800 and others- I meet a lot of instructors and other dive professionals each year at the Casino Point Dive Park. Many of them know this story and are equipment techs. Several told me that debris in the debris tube is "more common" than we think... but not very common.

The reg was checked out by someone other than the last rebuilder.

Debris can get blown INTO a tank at air fill stations or on boats from what I've heard. The tank could be clean upon visual or hydro and then get some piece of debris blown in if the fil pressure is significantly higher than the tank pressure (say in a hot fill).

Due to their design, debris tubes are more likely to clog if one submerges head down. I usually drift down in a horizontal position giving me time to turn on camera, adjust gear and clear mask.

The reg has functioned great ever since (as has the tank).

Doc

 

[diving-diva]

...a heavy rock. I am happy to hear that you are OK. Count your blessings and take a deep breath. Hug someone you care about. Reading your email brought me back to an experience I had 3 weeks ago.
Back in cold water after a 17 month break I couldn't get down. Thinking that perhaps the extra few pounds I had gained since my last dive screwed up my weight, from the water I called to the boat for more weight. I put it in my pocket and I was able to descend and catch up with my dive buddy. For the first, I don't know, 40 feet or so I was busy adding air to my dry suit and trying to prevent mask squeeze. I tried to read my computer but the numbers were blurry. I couldn't get the numbers to focus. Before I knew it I was zooming past my dive buddy within arm's length. I reached for his hand and I indicated to him that I was having a buoyancy problem, I had added as much air as I could to my BC and some to my suit but I just kept sinking, fast. He then grabbed me and tried to slow my descent by trying to fill my BC but that didn't work because it was already full and then he added air to his own BC and then added air to my drysuit. Finally I stopped falling. We had fallen together to 129 feet. We were on a 300 foot wall. We were at 129 feet in dark green water in the flash of an eye. It happeneded so FAST. After my subsequent slow ascent to the surface-it seemed to take hours-I felt dizzy and nauseous. People said that I was white as a sheet. I felt better within 45 minutes. We have dive insurance with Dan. Maybe we should have called them. This was my 53rd dive and I am an advanced diver despite my seeming stupidity. My dive lasted only 5 minutes. The feeling of falling like a rock will last a lifetime. Thank you to aquaSub, my dive buddy who saved me. I had no idea how deep we were and by the time I might have figured out how to stop it may have been too late. Accidents can happen in a flash. I have heard of diving accidents before and could never understand how someone could get lost at sea like at Whyte Cliff Park in Vancouver where we lost 3 divers together. But now I know. Blurry vision, stupid buoyancy and poof you're a rock.
Thank goodness you are OK. Dive buddies make sense. I urge you to consider finding a live buddy.

 

[ba_hiker]

...a heavy rock. I am happy to hear that you are OK. Count your blessings and take a deep breath. Hug someone you care about. Reading your email brought me back to an experience I had 3 weeks ago.

...

Thank goodness you are OK. Dive buddies make sense. I urge you to consider finding a live buddy.

hope you are ok, sounds frightening. I feel real nervious decending over deep water and much prefer solid bottoms at a known depth!

 

[slee416]

Full breath one minute, no breath the next. Tried my octo... no air. Inflator... same.

At 70 ft. and I'd been too lazy to attach my pony bottle. Instinctively I started towards the surface, trying to keep it as slow as I could but getting no air from my reg I couldn't be too slow.

After what seemed like minutes during which I remained calm and faced what I thought might be my death, I reached the surface out of breath. I was surprised at how calm I remained (although I don't panic in emergencies, at least to date).

Dr. Bill

Dr. Bill,

What you experienced and lived to tell about is my, and I'm sure many others, biggest fear in diving. I'm not so interested in what failed equipment wise and I'm not here to flame on your diving style or discipline in diving. What I want to know more of is what was the actual experience like. You learn about emergency ascent procedure in training, but it's hardly put into practice.

If I take a breath and fully exhale on land I know I can't hold my breath for 60 seconds, much less underwater and fighting panic. Did you ditch your weights? Did you have to kick the whole way up? Did you have to dump air that expanded in your BC as you ascended? Did you do the "ahhhhh" sound and did you find that more air became available to you as you ascended? This is the one that I find the hardest to put trust in without actually having experienced it myself.

Does anybody recommend simulating an emergency ascent? I can't remember if this is part of OW certification. I remember doing it in the pool lengthwise but can't remember if we did it from ocean depth. (Maybe I was smoking too much of the wacky tobacky ) But in any case I don't mean take a full breath from the reg and say "ahhhh" going up. I think I could do that from 70ft with some level of confidence, but to go from breath, full exhale and all of a sudden no air is downright SCARY!!!

Congratulations on staying cool and making it back. Can you share with us some of the specifics of what was going thru your mind? If the reg air supply is cut, okay intial panic sets in and I check the octo, that's out too (panic starting to infiltrate), check the inflator, that's out too, holy sh!t (panic full on). That's me.

Well the one thing I learned from reading your posting is to remember there's difference between being OOA at 70ft vs. say 30ft or 120ft. I have no idea where my limits lie (or is it lay?) since I have no practice!

 

[SueMermaid]

Due to their design, debris tubes are more likely to clog if one submerges head down.

Well, that's quite a valuable little piece of information for me to glean from this forum. I usually go down head first when conditions permit, it just...happens that way. Now that I know, this, I will think twice about that. Thank you for posting that.

 

[drbill]

Remember SueMermaid that such incidents are very rare (despite my statement that they are more common "than we think"). Good inspections of the tank should remove the threat as long as tank filling is done without introducing anything (don't know how rare that might be- I'm a biologist who dives rather than a "technical" dive professional).

Slee416- Somehow I rarely panic in threatening situations, I seem to keep my cool (disbelief?) whether it be a dive incident or possible car crash (other people driving). That is critical, but you won't know how you react until (IF) it happens to you.

I was quite surprised I could ascend so "easily" from that depth with "near empty" lungs. It seemed to take forever even though I was watching my time and depth as I ascended.

I did not ditch my weights (wanted to maintain a slow ascent since all my weight is on my belt- am considering a combo of ditchable and non-ditchable weights since I routinely over-weight myself to remain stable on the bottom while filming). I figured that would be the last resort. Couldn't inflate my BCD so I was swimming up which undoubtedly used more of the oxygen in my body. Very little expansion of air in my BCD since it was "fully" deflated when I was on the bottom. I would have breathed off what was in it if I could (risking some possibility of lung infection). Don't remember feeling much expansion in my chest but I did keep my pathway open to prevent embolism (my primary concern since my bottom time was negligible and therefore getting bent was very unlikely).

I do occasionally practice for OOA situations, but at depths of about 40 ft (no problem for me). I suggest all divers practice such skills routinely. During my certification training in the 60's we did do emergency ascents. Once back then I had to do a close call ascent (not fully OOA) from 90 ft with a buddy when our two tanks turned out to be empties placed in the wrong rack (no gauge to check them back then) and the J-valves had been pulled.

As soon as I knew I couldn't draw air from the reg, I "instinctively" started my ascent while I checked my octo and SPG. That bought me the added time necessary to succeed. I was not feeling any panic, just kept cool. When I was about 15' from the surface I started to want to accelerate my ascent to get a breath, but held back and completed the slow ascent. I was definitely gasping for air when I surfaced and had to slowly surface swim on my back (I don't use a snorkel) to shore.

I do recommend you practice emergency ascents (with a buddy of course) from various depths to get an idea of where your limits are. I stopped smoking 30 years ago so no doubt that helped quite a bit, and I have large lungs from my days as a competitive swimmer.

Doc

 

[wolf eel]

[Well, that's quite a valuable little piece of information for me to glean from this forum. I usually go down head first when conditions permit]

This is a little off topic but.

Why oh Why would you drop head first ?. Not only could the 1 in about fifty million is a piece from your tank (still do not understand that) going to plug your valve but you could have a air embolism in the brain box with much less odds. That is just bad diving practice. I will say the word again. Never dive head down as you stop and turn upward you may kill yourself. The air is going to expand from the lower depth the size of the bubble in the brain does matter. What conditions is it a good idea for head down decent ? I guess when the viss is bad so you can see the bottom rush up. I do not mean this as an insult but caution people die from doing up shoe laces then standing straight up. Air expands just enough.

The reg DrBill used is not the problem at all. The system failed Octo, BCD. If he was wearing a dry suit it too would not have had any air. What he was saying is true rust or particulets? can form in the tank but you have too drain your tank of air several times or have fowled air. A LDS can not push stuff into the tank from the valve as we are safe guarded from that in the construction of the valve. If you had then your gauge would read 0 psi/bar. And the draw from the start would be hard and you would notice it.

As for useing too much weight next time ditch your weight as you are falling or you may end up in the dark trying to figure out what the. This does happen often and for the price of the weight drop it. You where very lucky that your partner was there and strong enough to stop both of you. And had your partner been a newer diver he/she could have had all kinds of problems at the bottom and the two of you could have gone for a ride in a hyper tank with a doctor or Navy personial and they hate doing that with rec divers. Allways remember drop your weight. In DrBills case dropping weight was a bad idea but in your case it would have been an excellent idea from the start this is one of the only times ditching weight is a good idea. Do not wait till you are going faster then a speeding train because the system takes a bit to stop you. And as you fall deeper then it takes you to raise yourself till the weight above is at a point you have lift. Neoprene compresed and so on. You are very lucky as your whole system was full of air a rapid accent is what happens next.

Cheers happy dives
Derek

 

[SueMermaid]

you could have a air embolism in the brain box with much less odds. That is just bad diving practice. I will say the word again. Never dive head down as you stop and turn upward you may kill yourself. The air is going to expand from the lower depth the size of the bubble in the brain does matter. What conditions is it a good idea for head down decent ?

:06: Bad diving practice to descend head first? I have never heard of this, and I don't think I am understanding you correctly when you say so. You are saying that I am more likely to have an air embolism in my brain as I am going down to depth? Why?
I usually go down head first in clear, calm water of the tropics when I can see and am well-oriented.

 

[wolf eel]

[

Debris can get blown INTO a tank at air fill stations or on boats from what I've heard. The tank could be clean upon visual or hydro and then get some piece of debris blown in if the fil pressure is significantly higher than the tank pressure (say in a hot fill).

Due to their design, debris tubes are more likely to clog if one submerges head down. I usually drift down in a horizontal position giving me time to turn on camera, adjust gear and clear mask.]

I just wanted to comment on this point.

If you are to fill hot( that means fast and the tank remains hot from friction of the air no more pressure just fast)

The tube is hanging in deep space inside the tank it sits in the middle and for a piece to fall from any side of the tank and fall into the hole is very odd.
It is a small area and even a smaller piece to fit. I am not doubting you it happened well something did. One question where you using steel or AL Because steel will have crud (because it can rust) and AL do not rust.

Cheers
Derek

PS. going today to rip apart about thirty tanks to see if any have crud. I ask my DAD and he had said steel forsure and that comes from the past poor air fills and draining of the tank no SPG. But in todays standards that should not happen.

PSS I mean everything I say with the most respect.

 

[wolf eel]

[ Bad diving practice to descend head first? I have never heard of this, and I don't think I am understanding you correctly when you say so. You are saying that I am more likely to have an air embolism in my brain as I am going down to depth? Why?]

I can explain this to you. In your O/W you where taught not too. Air expands from lack of pressure. As your head is pointing down you have pressure and as you raise your head you have less. The expantion. Again in your open water course you where taught feet or horizontal Not face first. This goes against everything. Drysuit your feet would be filled with air your BCD is trapping air and your ears could have a blocked ear drum because of the rise from head first to up right.

Cheers
Derek