Advice needed: Second stage for Scubapro MK25 EVO. Or go Atomic?

[rondobo]

Hey everybody,

I have been diving for a few year, but only on rental equipment. I did mainly dive in warm water and on vacation in the past, but decided to get more serious about the hobby - and am now looking for my first own set of equipment.

Looking at equipment, I want to satisfy two criteria: (a) the equipment should be very rugged and durable, easy to service, and have a good coverage of service spots and (b) I want to be able to use it for many areas of the sport (e.g., being able to dive deeper/in cold water/etc.).

I have read the countless threads discussing the benefits and drawbacks of the three obvious choices, the A700, the S620Ti, and the G260. However, some of the discription mismatch and I don't know if this might be due to internal revisions of the models by SP or just different preferences.

Being in Germany, I can currently score complete sets of regulators with MK 25 EVO as the first stage for (with discounts):
- S620Ti (+ S270) -- 800€
- A700 (+ S270) -- 800€
- G260 (+ R105) -- 600€ (or 800€ for the BT variant, just being a sucker for the aesthetics and fully aware that this does not affect performance)

On the forum I have read that SP service tech would not recommend the A700, as it is not great to service and is a "marketing scam". Other say it breathes wonderfully and highly recommend it. Similarly, for the S620Ti, some love the small form factor and less weight and say it breathes like a breeze (having less WOB breathing out), others say thar given the smaller form factor and everything else being equal, breathes take a bit more effort and some consider it "loud". The G260 seems to be an all time classic that is well regarded, others find the newer models breathe better. In my case, I am only offered these nice prices on bundles and I find the R105 not too great (shop does not change the bundle even if I pay on top).

Did anybody dive multiple/all of these second stages and can give me their impressions? I know that all of them are a great choice and it comes down to preference, but would appreciate all of your input and experience to make an informed decision.

I have also heard great things about Atomic, but would need a pointer in the right direction to get into the right types of models as my dive shop does not offer them. I am willing to spend the 800€ and more, given that the reg gives me a lot of years of good service.

Thanks so much!
Rondobo

 

[GDHLEWIS]

Have dived the S620 & G260 and ended up with the G260 for the following
1. G260 breathed just as good as the S620
2. G260 was cheaper (who doesn't like to save money)
I dove both with Mk25 evos as well and dived them a number of times in different configurations BM and SM.

In the end G260 was cheaper and just as solid and I am planning to do the same for my wife... but thats just my 2 cents, have a friend who swears by the S620

Good luck

 

[ginti]

What type of dives do you usually do?
- depth
- water temperature
- environment (lake/sea/whatever, overhead/ow, wreck/caves/mines/fishes/etc.)
- gas (trimix/nitrox/air)
- ...

 

[rondobo]

Have dived the S620 & G260 and ended up with the G260 for the following
1. G260 breathed just as good as the S620
2. G260 was cheaper (who doesn't like to save money)
I dove both with Mk25 evos as well and dived them a number of times in different configurations BM and SM.

In the end G260 was cheaper and just as solid and I am planning to do the same for my wife... but thats just my 2 cents, have a friend who swears by the S620

Good luck

Thank you, that really helps! Was the S620 significantly smaller and lighter or is this hardly noticable above/below water? Asking because I will mostly dive while travelling internationally, so it might make a difference if I can save some weight.

What type of dives do you usually do?
- depth
- water temperature
- environment (lake/sea/whatever, overhead/ow, wreck/caves/mines/fishes/etc.)
- gas (trimix/nitrox/air)
- ...

During the last years, I mostly dived in
- betwen 15-30m for regular dives, 30-40m for some wrecks or special dive sites,
- warm water (so > 18C, 65F),
- sea/salt water, mostly reefs, but also go for wrecks if available - and want to get into cave diving when we go to Mexico
- I usually dive Nitrox < 30m and air from 30-40m

But as I said, if possible, I want to have gear that gives me the opportunity to get deeper into the hobby, e.g., diving in colder areas or also try my hand at tech diving.

Thank you so much, really appreciate the answers!

 

[GDHLEWIS]

Thank you, that really helps! Was the S620 significantly smaller and lighter or is this hardly noticable above/below water? Asking because I will mostly dive while travelling internationally, so it might make a difference if I can save some weight.

I generally never noticed the weight difference and its defiantly not something that comes to mind when I was using them both. My 10 year old has used the G260s and has never complained on the weight when using them. He has complained when using some heavier 2nd stages.

 

[Mobulai]

I live in Germany as well, and in January I got myself an mk19/g260 kit (doubles)

I also have a (fairly) big collection of mk10s and g250s that I collected from Kleinanzeige (and working on getting them in diving shape)

I haven’t tried the mk25evo, I did try the old mk25 with s600 (not the 620ti)

I would focus still mainly on what @ginti asked..
How do (most) of your dives look like?

1st stages:
I personally am not a fan of unsealed regulators, especially fancy pistons ones.
The mk25 needs a real good rinse after salt water dives, and it’s a bit sensitive to silt (I hear)

If you’re considering the mk25 because of it’s ice resistance— I would say you’re better off with an mk19/17 (depending if you want a turret) from the SP catalogue

Atomics are (theoretically) great— I’ve been considering one as well (but money speaks)

If the argument is flow, sure the mk25 is a beast in that field (8500 l/min), but do you really need all that? 19/17s give about 6900 l/min

If you are into the mk25 for ease of service of a piston compared to a diaphragm — I think you’d wanna go with something like APEKS; SP is a nightmare in that regard with alk the special tools

2nd stages:
The 620Ti has an upper hand regarding ice resistance, size and weight (jaw comfort), but not by much
The g260 has very close performance, and has the best feature ever: seat saver purge button; when you store your reg you can prelong the seat life but putting it in storage mode
It also breathes comfortable at depth (~50m on air; that’s a scary level of gas density), for a much lower price

The A700 is an aesthetically faithful piece of crap; I only hear bad things from users and others that are far more knowledgeable than me
The price is in the hand work, not the performance.

The big question:
Do you (ever) plan to move from a recreational setup (1st stage + 2 2nds) to any form of technical diving (2 of both)?

That might help you weigh your options a bit…
Oh btw:
what mainly influenced my decision was these 2 (overly technical) sessions by the awesome @rsingler





Reg geeks 1
+ reg geeks 2

 

[Mobulai]

Oh I absolutely got carried away and forgot where I was going with this:

live in Germany as well, and in January I got myself an mk19/g260 kit (doubles)

Mk19+g260 x2 costs about 995 eur

That’s a mich better (money wise) deal than a rec setup (1 1st and 2 2nds), as a future investment into tech diving
(You’ll still need to buy spgs — not part of that kit)

Edit: they are all top notch regulators btw, the differences are negligible applied to most diving situations

 

[Mobulai]

Regarding Atomic:
My basic finding is that they are all the same model (1st stages); it’s the material that defines its usability:

Monel > can do 100% o2
Stainless > only up to 80%, less susceptible to corrosion
Titanium > only up to 40%, great at ignoring corrosion

But a high performance reg is generally reserved for depth (doesn’t need to be o2 clean) and ease of breathing)

The question is, is it worth the money for you to get a modern sealed piston?

But best of someone with actual atomic experience weights in

Just my 2 bars

 

[lexvil]

I would do the G260, overall just about the best second stage SP makes. The 620 is fine but I wasn’t impressed although it is a good reg.
Save the 200 €

Atomic is great, performance is always good.

For my tastes if you could substitute a MK 17 for the 25 that would be a big improvement.

 

[Nemrod]

Several reasons to get the G260 with Mark 11/17/19/25. The G260 has a full size diaphragm providing a smoother and more sensitive response that is transparent to the diver's demand. The G260 case being slightly larger provides a little buoyancy underwater offsetting the slight weight difference (much exaggerated). The G260 has a hard cover and conventional purge button with a seat saver lock. The A700, S620 all have soft covers which are not as long term durable. Atomic, nice regulator, superb performance, soft cover known to get gooey or get hard and crack and the graphics rub off. Any regulator set from Scubapro or Atomic is going to perform well.

Not sure why somebody would say the A700 is a marketing scam. It is a fine regulator. See, the problem is that the older G250 sits at the top of the pinnacle. And the G260 being the direct descendent, basically a G250 with micro-adjust and a little bit too fancied up, well, that is my choice. And that little S370 is a fine little regulator also.



Not much into the soft covers. I do like the way Scubapro does their models with soft covers vs the Atomic. A hard cover with a purge button may get all ugly and beat up over the years but it will not turn hard, gooey or sticky. And then be unobtainable rendering the regulator useless.



I doubt any first stage other than clones thereof has the performance of the Mark 25 which exceeds that of any diver or divers by multiples. If you want a Mark 25 then get it and just give it a rinse at the end of the day. I would rather have an unsealed piston than a sealed piston which can have seawater dilute the grease and remain. Did someone say titanium!!!!!!!!

Never happen, but I wish Scubapro would bring back the titanium Mark 11 and the classic G250. I could then forget anything else existed. But in the meantime, Scubapro had the G250 for so long there are plenty out there and even really ugly ones can be made pretty again.