Advantages of “integrated” AI computer and back-up

[Doctor Rig]

Incorrect, Suunto had been making WAI dive watches for more than a decade. The problem with them is they are too small to read easily.

Here is the real issue - there are many divers out there who do Tec dives but perhaps not a regular basis to justify the cost of two computers. So many, myself included use a primary computer which may be WAI, for a backup have a SPG and a simple dive watch with cut tables. The simple dive watch can be worn when out of the watch.

The main problem with dive computer is cost. They are made in limited quantities so there is a fine balance.

@ Scared Silly.... Good points! My above proposal is only a futuristic guess, as an integrated approach will naturally come in some way, it’s just the nature of electronics evolution today. Just look at what an Apple watch does today. If my proposal doesn’t match what you think would be valuable AND cost effective to divers in the future, what do you think would be?

 

[dmaziuk]

If my proposal doesn’t match what you think would be valuable AND cost effective to divers in the future, what do you think would be?

On a serious note, you realize your proposal comes with the single point of failure: the pressure sensor. If you buy console computer and a wireless AI wrist computer, available now, you get what you want with redundant pressure sensors. So in order for your proposal to make financial sense, your proposed console computer with built-in WAI sensor has to cost noticeably less than the above. It can't cost less than the console computer itself, and the cost of wrist unit isn't affected, all you have to cut off is ~$300 of the pressure transmitter. I just don't see it happening, what with R&D, FCC and the target market size and so on.

 

[stuartv]

After some research and thought, It makes sense to me to have more than just a wrist mounted AI computer. System failure is a possibity. A number of stand alone backup options are available but none that are integrated, as I’ve found.

Here’s a “new” integrated alternate proposal that I’d like to share to. Would you be interested?

Primary Source: Full function “rugged” AI console computer (via hose) with Bluetooth connectivity for both setup, dive profile downloads and RF communication for data sharing with the secondary.

Secondary: Wrist mounted watch and (read only) dive data display from primary. This wrist mounted secondary would be compact and would present full function data at a good price point. (This easy day-use wear watch would be the divers primary interface.)

Would you be interested in something like this?

Clarification due to reply comments:
1). Yes, I was wrong about Bluetooth communications with the secondary watch. As noted above, this connection should be RF, the same as used by computers and transmitter today.
2). The proposed integrated solution would address the following limiations/problems with current computer systems available today:
> All AI and non-AI watches are large/ bulky, and don’t lend themselves to every-day wear. The proposed watch could be sized for every-day wear and this would be especially helpful in preventing leaving your “computer” in the room or at home.
> The use of the proposed primary would NOT be the customary user interface, as that would be the watch, unless of watch failure or additional information is desired. Divers don’t like to use a console computer, just as was noted below. The console tucked away is protected and can easily be very robustly designed and not limited by available space as AI watches are today. Bigger batteries could easily be integrated, thus battery related problems would be minimized.
> The breaking of regulator mounted transmitters of today’s AI computers would no longer be an issue. When an AI transmitter is broken, then a back-up AI watch would not be of any value.
> The proposed integration would help with dive programming, as it’s done only on the primary or via one’s phone and a Bluetooth connection. Not the case on multiple AI computers, as they require individual programming.

I think you are calling out problems that are not "real".

1) There are AI watches that are not too bulky to wear as everyday wear.

2) There is not really a problem with AI transmitters getting broken by being attached to a 1st stage. Yes, some people post here on SB about using an HP hose to attach their transmitter, to avoid having it get broken. But, I think they are being paranoid and it's no more of a problem (statistically) than boat staff dropping a tank and breaking your 2nd stage reg. I.e. not something I would worry about. I have been using wireless AI for 4 years and never had anyone grab my transmitter by accident.

3) I dive with 2 computers and when the non-AI one dies, it will be replaced by an AI one. Having a backup computer is important to me, even on a rec/NDL dive. It is carrying historical info about my tissue loading. But, while I COULD put a backup AI transmitter on my 1st stage, to have full redundancy, I wouldn't bother. For rec/NDL diving, I don't feel like redundancy on my tank pressure is any more important than it would be if I were diving with an SPG instead of AI. I.e. it is simply not needed. If my transmitter dies during a dive, I will end my dive early. Not that big a deal.

And it's pretty much the same for technical dives. I use AI on my back gas, with no SPG. I use good quality button gauge SPGs on my deco bottles. If the AI on my back gas goes out, I will turn the dive early.

Fortunately, in 4 years and 200+ dives with AI, I have never had a single problem with the AI (which is more than I can say for my experience with an SPG).

 

[Kasey Kohler]

I think you are calling out problems that are not "real".

Fortunately, in 4 years and 200+ dives with AI, I have never had a single problem with the AI (which is more than I can say for my experience with an SPG).

Good to know I recently bought a shearwater with Ai and don’t have a regular SPG, and it’s nice to have less hoses off my regs. If my AI fails I’ll just end my dive.

 

[scubadada]

I've been diving a wrist AI primary computer with a backup non-AI computer and SPG since 2010, 1,178 dives, 1,239 hours. I am loathe to miss a dive or interrupt a series of dives. I have used the backup computer for 2 dives when, after a period of inactivity, I did not check my primary computer battery and it failed. I have used the SPG for 4 dives, 2 when I forgot to transfer the transmitter to another regulator set, and 2 when I let the battery in the transmitter fail. So, my backups saved 0.5% of my dives, but gave me piece of mind on all the others. I have better battery habits now and have reduced the risk even more.

There are some other benefits. Like others, I use the SPG to make a quick pressure check on my cylinders. My backup computer displays some information not always on the front screen of my primary, I look at them both periodically.

Equipment configuration is an individual choice, I am comfortable and experienced with mine.

 

[Doctor Rig]

I've been diving a wrist AI primary computer with a backup non-AI computer and SPG since 2010, 1,178 dives, 1,239 hours. I am loathe to miss a dive or interrupt a series of dives. I have used the backup computer for 2 dives when, after a period of inactivity, I did not check my primary computer battery and it failed. I have used the SPG for 4 dives, 2 when I forgot to transfer the transmitter to another regulator set, and 2 when I let the battery in the transmitter fail. So, my backups saved 0.5% of my dives, but gave me piece of mind on all the others. I have better battery habits now and have reduced the risk even more.

There are some other benefits. Like others, I use the SPG to make a quick pressure check on my cylinders. My backup computer displays some information not always on the front screen of my primary, I look at them both periodically.

Equipment configuration is an individual choice, I am comfortable and experienced with mine.

Thanks Scubadada, I appreciate your experienced comments, as well as those from other divers commenting on this thread. Scubadada you’ve added system redundancy and use good habits to protect yourself and your ability to not miss or abort a dive. I like your approach. if you could take your knowledge and create THE ideal “instrumentation” package what would that system look like?

 

[scubadada]

Thanks Scubadada, I appreciate your experienced comments, as well as those from other divers commenting on this thread. Scubadad you’ve added system redundancy and use good habits to protect yourself and your ability to not miss or abort a dive. I like your approach. if you could take your knowledge and create THE ideal “instrumentation” package what would that system look like?

For my diving, I see no reason to change anything.