Advanced Open Water
- Thread starter kwat34
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I am lighten up. I already said I should have opened up differently in my post. I was on a boat in the keys last week going to the spiegal grove. The only criteria was to have an Advanced open water to dive it. There was a guy that had to be rescued on the surface. He had the Advanced open water diver rating and only had 12 dives. This is the reason for my post wanting feedback from you guys
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---------- Post added July 5th, 2015 at 09:40 AM ----------
They turned a guy away because be didn't have an advanced rating. He was pissed. He said he had 80 dives
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Sure, if you know more than your original statement. The 80-dive dude could be extremely well prepared; how do you know that? My point is, saying, "I have 80 dives!" is saying nothing really useful prior to a deep dive in the ocean. This is why people get AOW and Deep Diver and carry the cards. It makes all the pomposity irrelevant.
What if you say, "I can drive a car." Maybe, maybe not. Do you have a driver's license? That tells me more than your statement. What if you say, "I have been driving for 10 years." I still want to see your license.
What if you say, "I can drive a car." Maybe, maybe not. Do you have a driver's license? That tells me more than your statement. What if you say, "I have been driving for 10 years." I still want to see your license.
Just curious in an advanced class when you do your 1 deep dive. What is taught to make them a better diver then someone that has multiple deep dives and don't have a card. When I did my 1 deep dive in my advanced class. I didn't learn anything about deep diving except I could do a math and write my name at 70ft. Lol. I learned my deep diving from hard knocks in which I wouldn't recommend doing that way. Lol. It wasn't until I did my Advanced Nitrox when I fully understood what I was doing and what was going on with my body with N2 loading and off gasing
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---------- Post added July 5th, 2015 at 11:06 AM ----------
It was nice chatting with you Tursiops. I see you are a Master Instructor and dive a rebreather, very cool. At least I know that I have someone I'm chatting with knows their ****. I'm going to get a couple of dives in before I have dinner with the family. Thanks again
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---------- Post added July 5th, 2015 at 11:06 AM ----------
It was nice chatting with you Tursiops. I see you are a Master Instructor and dive a rebreather, very cool. At least I know that I have someone I'm chatting with knows their ****. I'm going to get a couple of dives in before I have dinner with the family. Thanks again
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The question of a dive operator requiring AOW v. number of dives v. an evaluation of the kind of background the diver has before allowing the diver to go on a more challenging dive for a particular comes up every other month or so on ScubaBoard. I will try to make a quick summary of the differences between the three to explain why the AOW is usually the preferred method.
Why have the Rule? If a diver goes on a dive that goes beyond a basic level of difficulty, there is always a possibility of an incident leading to a fatality. In that case, the operator may well be sued for allowing the diver to do a dive for which he or she is not qualified. The operator's insurance company will want to make sure they do not have to have a payout, so they will be looking for some objective sign of diver competence.
Number of Logged Dives: Tursiops pointed out that you can have a lot of logged dives without a lot of advanced experience. You can also have a lot of logged dives without any advanced experience at all. If someone who wants to do a particular dive realizes his log is 5 dives short, well, he can have 5 more logged dives in a matter of minutes. What about computer logs? In the past few years I have sold two old computers to friends. Each now has an impressive history of logged dives they have not actually done.
Evaluation of the Quality of the Diver's Experience: How will you make that judgment--on the quality of the log book described above? No matter how you do it, your dive leader is making a judgment that can later be challenged in court. It is by no means objective. This is done in places though, particularly liveaboard trips on which the diver will be doing 20-30 dives. With that much time, they have the luxury of doing a checkout dive. Operators do not have that kind of opportunity in the case of typical two tank dives.
AOW card: It is purely objective--does the diver have the card or not? It is pretty hard to fake, and it is usually easier to get the card than to create a fake. There is no operator judgment to be challenged in court. If the diver is not prepared well enough to do the trip and has an AOW card, it makes more sense to sue the instructor who gave the card than the operator who accepted it.
Why have the Rule? If a diver goes on a dive that goes beyond a basic level of difficulty, there is always a possibility of an incident leading to a fatality. In that case, the operator may well be sued for allowing the diver to do a dive for which he or she is not qualified. The operator's insurance company will want to make sure they do not have to have a payout, so they will be looking for some objective sign of diver competence.
Number of Logged Dives: Tursiops pointed out that you can have a lot of logged dives without a lot of advanced experience. You can also have a lot of logged dives without any advanced experience at all. If someone who wants to do a particular dive realizes his log is 5 dives short, well, he can have 5 more logged dives in a matter of minutes. What about computer logs? In the past few years I have sold two old computers to friends. Each now has an impressive history of logged dives they have not actually done.
Evaluation of the Quality of the Diver's Experience: How will you make that judgment--on the quality of the log book described above? No matter how you do it, your dive leader is making a judgment that can later be challenged in court. It is by no means objective. This is done in places though, particularly liveaboard trips on which the diver will be doing 20-30 dives. With that much time, they have the luxury of doing a checkout dive. Operators do not have that kind of opportunity in the case of typical two tank dives.
AOW card: It is purely objective--does the diver have the card or not? It is pretty hard to fake, and it is usually easier to get the card than to create a fake. There is no operator judgment to be challenged in court. If the diver is not prepared well enough to do the trip and has an AOW card, it makes more sense to sue the instructor who gave the card than the operator who accepted it.
Your suspicion is correct: on that one deep dive, you do not learn everything....which is why there are many classes available beyond AOW. Hopefully, on that one dive, you become aware of the rate at which gas gets used up, the real possibility of narcosis and runnig out of NDL, the likelihood that a CESA will be difficult, and that it is often darker and colder. You also get some confidence that you don't suddenly die if you exceed 60 ft. A good diver keeps on learning; you appear to be doing that. Good on 'ya.
There are some people in AOW who don't learn much but most do.
I'll give you an example. Two AOW courses ago I had a student who did an exercise. He had to read and then write an 8 letter world backwards and in mirror image on the surface.... and then read another 8 letter word at depth and write it backwards and in mirror image on a slate.....
First time... perfect within 10 seconds. Second time, completely illegible given 2 tries of 2 minutes at depth. the interesting thing about it is that he THOUGHT he had nailed it but when I showed him what he had actually written he was amazed. It was nothing like what he imagined....... it was completely illegible
R..
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