Advanced Open Water Disappointment

[scubaozy]

I rate the importance of the dive shops higher. Its a matter of culture and work ethics; you have a crappy culture, your instructors will stink, where can a fresh instructor get good role models and good practices? Crappy culture is passed to next gen, they will not know any better until they work in a decent environment, even then they might resist and stick to old bad habits.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much about the different organizations and I know that PADI gets a lot of crap for a lot of things. I tried to careful in my original post not to say it was PADI for this reason. I wanted a discussion on what the course could have/should have been which I've gotten. That said, in my limited experience it does seem like this is the case. Burn through levels and get instructors. I wonder how many instructors there are in the organization that pay fees but don't do any teaching?

I usually take internet complaints with a grain of salt, however with PADI it is a widespread and even worldwide pattern of poor behavior. We pay a lot of money for these guys to teach us to be safe. And arguably if I got the actual training I should have they were charging too little. I have experience with three PADI shops and they are all turn and burn. Having to chase down instructors to get my dives in, trying to do skills when I can barely stay neutral etc and so forth. I have experience with two TDI/SDI trainers and they have been wonderful. In fact the one SDI instructor was just mentoring me when I started to dive. It was ongoing joke between us how I was paying the PADI guy and he was actually training me.

As far as me reporting my lack of training to the shop: the shop owner was the trainer. He is actually a good instructor when he instructs and doesn't overload himself but is just wrapped up in turning out certs as fast as he can... The PADI Way.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

As far as me reporting my lack of training to the shop: the shop owner was the trainer. He is actually a good instructor when he instructs and doesn't overload himself but is just wrapped up in turning out certs as fast as he can... The PADI Way.

I even left him a glowing review after my naive ass passed OW and before I got wrapped up in his **** show. I wanted to support my LDS. But after getting deeper into it regret that. Not that I leave a lot of internet reviews but this experience has soured me and I haven't left anybody one since.

 

[Librarybarry]

A prereq for the Deep class is AOW....
Or, at least, the Adventure Diver certification with the deep dive.

Yes, for PADI (and I do realize that this thread was about an experience with PADI), but other organizations may not require their "sampler" as a prereq. For instance, SSI does not require one to have Advanced Adventurer to take the Deep Specialty class, or any other specialty classes. SSI only requires that you have OW to focus on specialty courses.

This discrepancy between the two agencies strengthens my personal feeling that PADI AOW is a money grab, because of the inability for a diver who knows they would like more specific training in certain areas to spend the money for AOW first.

**Not meant as debate with you @tursiops, just putting it out there for someone reading who may not know.

 

[Arkman]

This discrepancy between the two agencies strengthens my personal feeling that PADI AOW is a money grab, because of the inability for a diver who knows they would like more specific training in certain areas to spend the money for AOW first.

I think I would agree with you. I didn't get any say in what specialties we did on my AOW. It is just a set course by the dive shop. They always do the same. As I understand it, you must do a deep and nav for the AOW? The other three are up to the divers/shop?

I did my OW with a different shop (PADI) and I think they worked pretty hard to make sure we were all competent divers. I took it as a college course, so we maybe that was why? We had a semester of classroom and pool dives followed by open water dives later.

Then I started going to the SSI shop right by my house. It is a "smaller" shop and most of the time the instruction I got was 1 on 1. I did my drysuit and boat diver with them. Drysuit was good, the boat diver was kind of a waste I thought. That was an easy add on because of what we were doing with the drysuit dives so it was just a card collection. I also did my Stress and Rescue with them. That was great. I was very dissapointed to hear that this shop isn't doing much instruction anymore.

From the start I knew exactly what I wanted my specialties to be. Deep, Nav, Drysuit, Nitrox. Going the SSI route I would have been "Advanced" after these 4, plus I would have gotten the cert for each individual course.

Not only does PADI make you do the advanced course first (as I understand it). Many people don't even get to pick what specialties they investigate with the advanced.

 

[tursiops]

Not only does PADI make you do the advanced course first (as I understand it).

You can do almost all the PADI specialties without having done Advanced.

Many people don't even get to pick what specialties they investigate with the advanced.

That means they should go to a different shop/instructor. Only Deep and Nav are required; all else should be an elective, in agreement with the student and the instructor. People who already have some good skills may prefer a topic that is about the ocean (like Fish ID) or doing things in the ocean (like Photography), rather than about their own diving. A good instructor will reinforce (and coach) good skills during "non-skills" dives. Some may know zero about boats; the Boat dive an be extremely helpful to them (and to others), if only to make sure they know how to stow their gear on board. Scuba diving is about more than jsut improving one's personal skills; it is also about the ocean and about the enjoyment of being underwater.

 

[Arkman]

Only Deep and Nav are required; all else should be an elective, in agreement with the student and the instructor.

I'd be curious to see how many shops do it this way. I know that this is how it is supposed to be done, but the handful of people (not many) that I know didn't get to pick. The shop did ahead of time.

 

[tursiops]

I'd be curious to see how many shops do it this way. I know that this is how it is supposed to be done, but the handful of people (not many) that I know didn't get to pick. The shop did ahead of time.

I've only worked-with/been-close-to a few shops, and they all had a default AOW plan, but were willing to work out a different plan. As an independent, I was always flexible.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

the Boat dive an be extremely helpful to them (and to others), if only to make sure they know how to stow their gear on board.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

A prereq for the Deep class is AOW....
Or, at least, the Adventure Diver certification with the deep dive.

Why can’t you just do the deep class? Or any other specialty that requires AOW for that matter? What in AOW is so special that makes it a prerequisite for other specialties?
Do you get a discount on the other specialties since you already have one of the dives done in AOW?
Why do you have to pay $450 for a sampler (not even a class) that on it’s own is pretty worthless from a training standpoint, is it just a pass key?
This is why so many people view PADI’s AOW as nothing more than a money grab.
It’s not just me, read some of the other responses.