Advanced Open Water Disappointment

[Belzelbub]

What??
When it comes to the very thing keeping me alive….I’m gonna calculate that myself, and have my buddy double check, thanks. Idk how people aren’t more self sufficient with this stuff

Yeah, I hear you. I read stories about this kind of stuff and always shake my head. Like people doing trust me dives where they just follow the DM blindly. I don't understand it either.

 

[tursiops]

Why can’t you just do the deep class? Or any other specialty that requires AOW for that matter? What in AOW is so special that makes it a prerequisite for other specialties?

The Ice Diving and the Cavern specialties both required AOW as a preeq. Do you think that is a bad idea? Seems like the more extreme specialties really ought to have more than a brand new OW card as an entry pass. Don't you agree?

Do you get a discount on the other specialties since you already have one of the dives done in AOW?
Why do you have to pay $450 for a sampler (not even a class) that on it’s own is pretty worthless from a training standpoint, is it just a pass key?

You should get the discount, but as always it depends on the shop. You assert that it is worthless, based on SB anecdotes. OK, let's agree to disagree.

This is why so many people view PADI’s AOW as nothing more than a money grab.
It’s not just me, read some of the other responses.

The SB population is not even a cross-section of the diving community. What you read here is input, but is not really conclusive. It is also cool to complain about PADI.
Most of eh divers I see/deal with (maybe several hundred a year) have never heard of SB. SB is an echo-chamber for PADI bashing. AOW in particular.

 

[Arkman]

The Ice Diving and the Cavern specialties both required AOW as a preeq. Do you think that is a bad idea? Seems like the more extreme specialties really ought to have more than a brand new OW card as an entry pass. Don't you agree?

I would agree with you on this point. I think it makes sense to have some prereqs for these types of classes. I wouldn't say it 100% needs to be AOW but it should be something. Like AOW or a few specialties or something else. I don't know, but something.

Most of eh divers I see/deal with (maybe several hundred a year) have never heard of SB. SB is an echo-chamber for PADI bashing. AOW in particular.

I know this comment isn't directed at what I said or have said in the OP, but I wanted to comment on it. I agree that it seems like industry wide, there is a lot of PADI bashing. From an average divers point of view, this seems unfair. I'm sure there are plenty of shops and instructors that really do care about thier students. I've met some and dove with some PADI instructors that I think genuinely care about thier students skills and safety.

I tried to be careful not to say the agency in my OP and I even tried to not say he/him (although I missed a few times). I wanted to try and just talk about the experience I had. Not get dragged into a fight about this organization or the like. I don't know if it was just obvious that it was PADI I went through, or just assumed by some?

All of that said, I think there is some legidimacy for people to complain about PADI. Which is really unfortunate for the good shops/instructors out there.

I'm not neccessarily going to stop training with PADI. I will for sure be more selective of my shop/instructor though. I may even hold off on training until I can afford to do travel and training at the same time. So I can travel to a good instructor.

 

[tursiops]

I'm not neccessarily going to stop training with PADI. I will for sure be more selective of my shop/instructor though. I may even hold off on training until I can afford to do travel and training at the same time. So I can travel to a good instructor.

Excellent.

You hear about PADI a lot because it is the big dog, and is everywhere. You hear complaints more than kudos because that is what people mainly do on the internet.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

This discrepancy between the two agencies strengthens my personal feeling that PADI AOW is a money grab, because of the inability for a diver who knows they would like more specific training in certain areas to spend the money for AOW first.

I tried to be careful not to say the agency in my OP and I even tried to not say he/him (although I missed a few times). I wanted to try and just talk about the experience I had. Not get dragged into a fight about this organization or the like. I don't know if it was just obvious that it was PADI I went through, or just assumed by some?

All of that said, I think there is some legidimacy for people to complain about PADI. Which is really unfortunate for the good shops/instructors out there.

When I commented I didn't assume it was PADI, I knew it was PADI based the behavior pattern. You are not alone and it's not just on SB as turisops said. I had dinner with two divers I just met on Saturday. They were looking to further their training and the subject came up and they had the same types of experiences. There is a lot of legitimacy to it.

 

[Arkman]

When I commented I didn't assume it was PADI, I knew it was PADI based the behavior pattern. You are not alone and it's not just on SB as turisops said. I had dinner with two divers I just met on Saturday. They were looking to further their training and the subject came up and they had the same types of experiences. There is a lot of legitimacy to it.

I can totally understand how someone could be turned off from a particular agency based on poor training. In my particular case, watching an instructor make questionable decision/comments throughout the entire weekend. Some of which led to an unsafe experience for a few involved. It doesn't take much to turn someone off, espeically when your life is at stake.

I do think if a person reads through this whole thread they would see people like @tursiops and others talk about what training is with them vs other instructors, they would see an instructor will make all the difference. That said, I don't know any of these people on her. They could all be terrible instructors that pretend to be good, but I doubt it .

I'd be curious to know how many people start out as an instructor for PADI (or other big agencies) and end up moving on to a different agency. And why?

 

[tursiops]

I'd be curious to know how many people start out as an instructor for PADI (or other big agencies) and end up moving on to a different agency. And why?

I've taught for PADI and for SDI/TDI; two agencies because their offerings are not the same.
As a (mostly) independent instructor, PADI is the easiest agency to deal with (unlike NAUE and SSI, for example). i've never felt constrained by PADI; you teach to their standards, and any additional material you offer just can't be used to withhold a certification, although some think otherwise.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

I'd be curious to know how many people start out as an instructor for PADI (or other big agencies) and end up moving on to a different agency. And why?

The guy I did my sidemount with recently switced from PADI to TDI. I think he is still doing OW in PADI but does Sidemount and Cavern under TDI. Not sure why. I think again, he is a good instructor but he had OW students before and after my sidemount dives and he turned and burned me over a weekend. Money plays a big part. I paid $450 for OW. That is pretty cheap I think. Maybe they should charge more and run less students.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

If they cared about the quality of training by their registered trainers they would do QC. Maybe some "secret shopper" divers to hit different trainers pretending to be novices and see how the training is or a group of folks that just hit the shops unannounced and say, "hey we are going to observe your classes the next couple days." An expensive proposition though. Probably cheaper to pay out the occasional Linnea Mills lawsuit.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Probably cheaper to pay out the occasional Linnea Mills lawsuit.

The Ford Pinto gas tank scandal set a horrific precedent.....