Advanced Open Water Disappointment

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I was teaching compass last night. How would I have demonstrated, and correct, how to sight the compass is not in the water with the student. And confirm they did hit the targets within the accuracy required.

I teach on a fairly decent slope. Often students get so task loaded with their compass, they lose trim and slowly rise to the surface. I check their orientation to see if they drift. I use wetnotes to communicate so that's how I correct underwater. This isn't a race. Students when they slow down, fin more smoothly and slowly do much better. I also give my students an obstacle course as well.

 

[Twiny]

For some dives, yes. I'm not a PADI instructor anymore, so I'll leave it to someone who's active to fill in what dives require direct supervision. Deep is the only one that I can recall offhand.

Hi, we can forget about this weird story of indirect supervision in the case of AOW course. It comes from the very early time when Instructors were just a few and had to handle multiple groups at the same time. Never saw indirect supervision for an AOW course within 10 years. All the dive shops require their instructors to directly supervise all dives at a ratio max of 1:4 (which could be more as well). As stated before even in those conditions, most of the time the result is poor in terms of buoyancy/trim/propulsion because minimum requirements to pass are low. Actually the idea behind the AOW course is to get new experience (drift, night, ...) this is not a skill oriented course (though assessment of OW basic skills is supposed to be done) anyway in 2 days, how it could be ?

 

[L13]

Oh wow. I saw my trainer having his newly certified AOW divers taking his AOW students on dives while he focused on his new OW students and thought that was crazy but this actually to standard with PADI. Interesting.

A certified diver taking a certified diver on a dive that does not exceed either divers skill levels is not, and should not be a problem. Even if done interspersed with training dives.

However, if they were training dives for the course then it would be a very big problem.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

However, if they were training dives for the course then it would be a very big problem.

They were absolutely training dives for the course. It was done on more than one day with different students.

 

[tursiops]

Oh wow. I saw my trainer having his newly certified AOW divers taking his AOW students on dives while he focused on his new OW students and thought that was crazy but this actually to standard with PADI. Interesting.

For some dives, yes. I'm not a PADI instructor anymore, so I'll leave it to someone who's active to fill in what dives require direct supervision. Deep is the only one that I can recall offhand.

A certified diver taking a certified diver on a dive that does not exceed either divers skill levels is not, and should not be a problem. Even if done interspersed with training dives.

However, if they were training dives for the course then it would be a very big problem.

They were absolutely training dives for the course. It was done on more than one day with different students.

In-water direct supervision is required for Dry and Deep, in AOW.
Indirect supervision means, "Be present and in control of the activities, but not necessarily directly
supervising all activities. Approve dive activities, oversee the planning, preparation, equipment
inspections, entries, exits and debriefings, and be prepared to quickly enter the water." Even though indirect supervision may meet the standards, that does not mean it is necessarily a good idea in terms of quality training and safety.

 

[Forbin's Descent]

In-water direct supervision is required for Dry and Deep, in AOW.
Indirect supervision means, "Be present and in control of the activities, but not necessarily directly
supervising all activities. Approve dive activities, oversee the planning, preparation, equipment
inspections, entries, exits and debriefings, and be prepared to quickly enter the water." Even though indirect supervision may meet the standards, that does not mean it is necessarily a good idea in terms of quality training and safety.

I am getting a lot of clarity of what the PADI AOW is supposed to be and not be from this thread. With the boats requiring it for some dives and the way the shops sell it, it is perceived to be more by us when we are complete newbs. In my case I wanted it to dive off the NC coast on sites like U-352. My local shop does the AOW in the quarry and it stands to reason that doing 4 "adventure" dives and a "deep" dive to 60' in the quarry is not going to properly prepare one to dive the wrecks and meg ledges off NC.

 

[Racer_X]

I am getting a lot of clarity of what the PADI AOW is supposed to be and not be from this thread. With the boats requiring it for some dives and the way the shops sell it, it is perceived to be more by us when we are complete newbs. In my case I wanted it to dive off the NC coast on sites like U-352. My local shop does the AOW in the quarry and it stands to reason that doing 4 "adventure" dives and a "deep" dive to 60' in the quarry is not going to properly prepare one to dive the wrecks and meg ledges off NC.

In a word: yes. That was my AOW as well. AOW is a required gateway to dive shops being willing to take you on dives. It does not prepare you for sites like the U-352. That's on my list too. My son is a WWII history buff, and we're planning an east coast u-boat dive tour as a college graduation present.

We're preparing with teh following course path:
1. OW (1986 for me, next year for him)
2. AOW (2012 vs year after next) for the card
3. TDI Nitrox for improved safety (winter break after OW)
4. GUE fundies (dials in weight and buoyancy, intro to BP/W with a known working setup, nitrox reinforcement, coaching with practice)

I figure that should meet my threshold for "competent."

 

[Twiny]

4.
In the GUE fundies, they do not train you for nitrox ? If positive no need to get this training from TDI

 

[Racer_X]

4.
In the GUE fundies, they do not train you for nitrox ? If positive no need to get this training from TDI

the TDI course isn't just "here's rec nitrox" but much deeper to set up a potential tech journey if my son wants to go that way. Our focus of Fundies is a rec, not tech, curriculum because it'd be first exposure to bp/w, etc. etc. No desire for doubles / drysuit / all that jazz. A pass or not is irrelevant to our journey, it's about the skills and starting gear setup. GUE would be a one-stop pass, but I'd rather focus on learning/experimentation versus passing.

 

[wgw04024]

Ya, I'd go back and bitch honestly.

For people who ask 'where should i do my training'...if you don't have a SOLID referral from someone you trust, I would always go to Rainbow Reef. Solid group there.